I suppose most of us in the US have heard about the occasionally excessive and over-zealous laws regarding underage drinking. As a parent in the US I know enough to be scared at the thought of finding my kids or anyone else's drinking alcohol in my home because a prison sentence is highly possible.
Now, from the BBC:
A mother in Kent was found to have purchased beer for consumption by her 13 and 15-year old children.
The two youngsters were found by officers in a "heavily intoxicated" state
Police licensing officer Barbara Murray said: "I want to warn parents that incidents like this will be regarded seriously and you could face a fine."
The mother was fined £80 for purchasing alcohol for a child under 18!!
I'd be quaking in my boots! Now there's a system to be proud of!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/7014255.stm
I am wondering, though, if anyone either here or there has their head on straight.
I would have to agree that it seems that this particular mother was irresponsible.
However, the problem I have with the laws here is that some states (I believe ours is one of them) doesn't even allow a small drink of wine at dinner for underage. That means that even a 20 year old can't drink alcohol and be treated like an adult in their own home with their parents.
As a mother of three teenagers, I would much rather let my children know that beer has already been provided in our home for them to hang out at than have them get their hands on hard liquor (which they do easily and frequently) and hide it. Or mix drink and drugs. In our home we can monitor how many are there, how many are drinking and when enough is enough. But we are not allowed to - so parties are dangerous.
it should be classed as child abuse.
I would have to agree that it seems that this particular mother was irresponsible.
However, the problem I have with the laws here is that some states (I believe ours is one of them) doesn't even allow a small drink of wine at dinner for underage. That means that even a 20 year old can't drink alcohol and be treated like an adult in their own home with their parents.
As a mother of three teenagers, I would much rather let my children know that beer has already been provided in our home for them to hang out at than have them get their hands on hard liquor (which they do easily and frequently) and hide it. Or mix drink and drugs. In our home we can monitor how many are there, how many are drinking and when enough is enough. But we are not allowed to - so parties are dangerous.
One more example of to much govt interferance* nannyism *
weather we allow our kids to consume a glass of wine at dinner should be perants responsibity .
but second question is how would they know ? are you being watched by big brother cameras in your dinning room,
the police had better be more gainfully employed keeping unwanted criminals from crossing our borders and leaving law abiding ,tax paying citizens alone
One more example of to much govt interferance* nannyism *
this wasn't a small glass of wine over sunday dinner John.
the kids were in a heavily intoxicated state.
a bit different no?
I totally agree with JohnA. Now theres something.
I think if you introduce a teenager to alcohol a glass of wine at a time, it teaches them to drink it wisely. I bet there are a lot more binge drinkers in the US than France because its the 'forbidden fruit'.
How the times change. I remember my Mum packing cans of Shandy in my packed lunch in middle school! :D
One more example of to much govt interferance* nannyism *
weather we allow our kids to consume a glass of wine at dinner should be perants responsibity .
but second question is how would they know ? are you being watched by big brother cameras in your dinning room,
the police had better be more gainfully employed keeping unwanted criminals from crossing our borders and leaving law abiding ,tax paying citizens alone
again
this is not a case of a glass of white over dinner.
she got the kids langers.
When I was 16 my mother used to buy me 18 can boxes of Kronenberg and bottles of Southern Comfort for parties. I thought it was so cool. And I would get ridiculously drunk. It wasn't until I was older and realised my mother drank way too much that I understood that what she was doing was completely wrong.
As for this particular case - the kids weren't being introduced to alcohol. They were absolutely smashed. Big difference. And totally indefensible.
In Massachusetts we are allowed to give our own children a small glass of wine on special occasions, but not to give to other people's children. I suppose that is reasonable, considering the laws here.
There is a huge difference between that woman in England being fined 80 pounds for buying her children beer and then leaving them to get on with it, and the parents in Virginia who bought beer and wine for a 16-year old's birthday party getting a prison sentence. Yes there is probably more to that story, but which of those results is the greater deterrent to other parents doing the same?
I cannot honestly say that the UK drinking laws encourage responsible drinking, any more than here, but here the punishment is more severe so those who are caught face greater penalties.
Another big difference between here and the UK is that college students (still underage) are not getting merry on wine, beer and cider, they are binge-drinking spirits and that's far worse.
Responsible parents teach their kids responsibility, but then there are the irresponsible ones who don't and that is where the excessive laws come in.
I'm not sure what age your kids are now KG, but believe me binge drinking goes on regularly over here in the teens, just as much as the UK. However, here its is very much swept under the carpet because parents are held responsible so much. Here its not in the streets and alleys of the town but in houses where the parents work long hours and are not there to supervise their kids. Any teenager in any high school knows whose house to go to if they want a drink or 2.
Funny enough my eldest daughter turned 21 in 2006 and since then has actually stopped drinking so much as there is no longer the illicit appeal I suppose.
Manc nobody is saying getting kids drunk is okay .everyone in on the same page with that
the post was in answer to Ben,statement about her state not allowing kids to drink a glass of wine at dinner with the family ..
I'm not sure what age your kids are now KG, but believe me binge drinking goes on regularly over here in the teens, just as much as the UK. However, here its is very much swept under the carpet because parents are held responsible so much. Here its not in the streets and alleys of the town but in houses where the parents work long hours and are not there to supervise their kids. Any teenager in any high school knows whose house to go to if they want a drink or 2.
Funny enough my eldest daughter turned 21 in 2006 and since then has actually stopped drinking so much as there is no longer the illicit appeal I suppose.
That is so true! Ours know exactly which kids have empty homes for parties, which kids have booze and which kids have drugs. What I find shocking (but we shouldn't be surprised) with the amount of publicity about these things compared to when we were growing up, I can't believe the number of parents who truly have no idea of what is going on! I'm not saying I know everything about my children - to be honest I don't want to know some things - but the topic of drink and drugs is often talked about openly and without judgment. Sometimes it is the only way to get to know what is going on.
KG, that is the exact point - these kids have no idea the dangers of the hard stuff compared to just beer. This is something we talk about with our children all the time. Also the importance of making sure you eat and drink water if they know they will be drinking. I'm not saying they will always listen but at least they are well armed with the information. It's the parents that ignore these issues and ignore the fact that teenagers are normal that frighten me.
In NH the police usually prosecute there own cases in the district court and all fines carry a "penalty assessment" which is a 20% tax on the fine which goes back to the police.
Additionally, the crime rates in some small tons are low and the police have a hard time justifying there budgets to the "Town Meetings" (the popular form of local government here).
Therefore they have a habit of chasing easy targets, whipping up moral outrage or simply generating htere own crimes.
Young people are an easy target, and alcohol is the usual excuse for the polcie action. Basically if you have two or three young people in a car at night, the police in certain towns will follow them until they exceed the speed limit or fail to use an indicator. Then they stop them and demand to search each individual and the vehicle (something that is wholly unlawful in NH) in th ehope of finding drugs or alcohol.
If they find nothing, they will give them a shakedown and on occasions (and I say this is all seriousness) arrest them for hiding the drugs the police failed to find - a crime known as "falsification of evidence".
Then they will offer a plea bargain at court, often to reduce the charge to a violation, which under NH law is not a criminal offense and thus does not have to be disclosed on college applications.
Ther eis a similar policy if kids are found partying (NH has a fairly draconian new law on 'house parties') - police receive a complaint of loud music; they go to the property, but instead of knocking on the door thay creep around the house looking in windows in th ehope of seeing some alcohol/drugs/naked teenage girls.
Again this is wholly unlawful in NH, police officers looking through windows is a search and they either need a warrant or some lawful exception.
If they see anything vaguely suspicious, they knock on the door. If the door is openned by a kid they march in and start demanding IDs, making kids take breath tests etc. In one case they seized all the vehicles on the property and search those too.
Again wholly unlawful. But the police, again, use the plea bargaining system to blackmail and extort pleas. If you pead guilty you waive all your constitutional rights and any chance of a civil suit.
This has absolutely nothing to do with protecting kids from the dangers of alcohol. These are the actions of a capricious and arbitary pseudo police state run amok.
Funny thing is, I thought the natives fought a war against the British to put a stop against this sort of thing.
Needless to say the irony is lost on them of a British lawyer coming here to point these things out.
Rant over ;)
KL - I wasn't suggesting that these things don't go on in the US, because indeed they do - my neighbour's 17-yr-old daughter is upset that the girls she used to hang out with are now only interested in going to homes where the parents are out, and drinking - and she is lost because she doesn't want to do that. As I was trying to say, binge drinking spirits is worse than binge drinking beer.
Ben, as usual, you have a great attitude. Being dictatorial doesn't work but being sensible is helpful. At least your kids will know what to do in the event someone gets alcohol poisoning.
In NH the police usually prosecute there own cases in the district court and all fines carry a "penalty assessment" which is a 20% tax on the fine which goes back to the police.
Additionally, the crime rates in some small tons are low and the police have a hard time justifying there budgets to the "Town Meetings" (the popular form of local government here).
Therefore they have a habit of chasing easy targets, whipping up moral outrage or simply generating htere own crimes.
Young people are an easy target, and alcohol is the usual excuse for the polcie action. Basically if you have two or three young people in a car at night, the police in certain towns will follow them until they exceed the speed limit or fail to use an indicator. Then they stop them and demand to search each individual and the vehicle (something that is wholly unlawful in NH) in th ehope of finding drugs or alcohol.
If they find nothing, they will give them a shakedown and on occasions (and I say this is all seriousness) arrest them for hiding the drugs the police failed to find - a crime known as "falsification of evidence".
Then they will offer a plea bargain at court, often to reduce the charge to a violation, which under NH law is not a criminal offense and thus does not have to be disclosed on college applications.
Ther eis a similar policy if kids are found partying (NH has a fairly draconian new law on 'house parties') - police receive a complaint of loud music; they go to the property, but instead of knocking on the door thay creep around the house looking in windows in th ehope of seeing some alcohol/drugs/naked teenage girls.
Again this is wholly unlawful in NH, police officers looking through windows is a search and they either need a warrant or some lawful exception.
If they see anything vaguely suspicious, they knock on the door. If the door is openned by a kid they march in and start demanding IDs, making kids take breath tests etc. In one case they seized all the vehicles on the property and search those too.
Again wholly unlawful. But the police, again, use the plea bargaining system to blackmail and extort pleas. If you pead guilty you waive all your constitutional rights and any chance of a civil suit.
This has absolutely nothing to do with protecting kids from the dangers of alcohol. These are the actions of a capricious and arbitary pseudo police state run amok.
Funny thing is, I thought the natives fought a war against the British to put a stop against this sort of thing.
Needless to say the irony is lost on them of a British lawyer coming here to point these things out.
Rant over ;)
And all that from a state with a democratic governor* lynch* and a majority in the house.