British Expatriate Network

http//www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23391188-details/Teachers+drop+the+Holocaust+to+avoid+offending+Muslims/article.do


Does it not seem stupied that teacher won't teach history cuz it may upset people.

I guess that if some folks are being told the holocaust never happened, by their religious folks its ok and that their feels should not be hurt. God knows yea don't want to tell them the truth. Suppose after a number of years it wil just be something thats been forgotten in time and never happened. How stupied do we have to be

Just one more example of the PC drivel that is sweeping the western world ,history is history , denying it dont make it not to have happened .


but then again leaving it out is better then brain washing the kids head to believe it didnt happen .

What is taught in mosques about this topic? ???

dont think that matters.
what matters is the students are giving all the views on the subject and make up there own mind thats why they are in school

students in christians schools are taught the chistian view of things doesnt nean all others schools should teach the same way .

oops, I meant the holocaust (as discussed in the article).

Of course it matters. Yes, all valid viewpoint need to be presented. But not all viewpoints are valid in every context. For example Creation in the Science curriculum. Pedophilia in the biology curriculum.... That doesn't necessarily mean that neither of these topics have a place in the curriculum, just that those are not the appropriate places.

The argument is that what is currently taught about the holocaust in schools is contradictory to what is taught in the mosques and so the muslims believe that the current teaching is religion-based because one viewpoint it missing. In order to be able to make judgment on this issue (or any issue) one must first hear both sides. The article says that Mosques teach denial of the holocaust. Denial of what? Denial that people died or denial that they didn't deserve to die? What is it about the current school teaching that doesn't gel with the Muslim teachings? I had no idea there was a difference/problem until now.

Most history is inaccurate by it's very definition. Story. Often the nature of the events themselves prevent concrete evidence being created and preserved, so we must rely on the stories of the survivors on all sides, and what they tell us will be filtered through their viewpoint and sometimes conflict with the stories of others. To gain a true understanding, surely we must hear all stories?

So rather than removing the holocaust from the curriculum, perhaps we should look at adding another perspective if it has a satisfactory provenance? But how can that be judged without knowing the perspective?

Similar argument to the whole creation/evolution thing. Creation failed to pass the provenance test because the demand was for it to be taught in Science, and there was not enough scientific evidence to support that. This may well be the case here -that there is not enough historical evidence to support the muslim viewpoint, but how can we tell if we do not know what it is?

- - - -

I think not teaching religion in the schools is the most ridiculous idea. Religion is such a huge part of so many people's lives it's no wonder there's so much disquiet when so many people know so little about people of different religions -their neighbors, their doctors, their police officers.... American schools need a decent non-denominational comparative religion program. And it shouldn't be optional. If your religion isn't strong enough that you can hear about others without wavering from your path/becoming impure/whatever, then you have no moral right to make demands on behalf of that religion. It's perfectly possible to teach about what some people belive without teaching that it is right or wrong.

/soapbox.

I agree with you 100%. Now if we could only get the other 99.999% of the population to agree, we're on to a winner!

QFT

yeah i worded that wrong what i meant was we shouldnt use what is taught in moslim schools as a basic for what we do .

we should teach both sides and present all views as i stated in my post not bother ourselves with what they do .
we have no control over that . just make sure WE do it right .

Couple of things to put this in perspective.
"This is London" is a website for the Evening Standard and London Lite which in turn is part of the Daily Mail group which in turn specializes in reactionary right wing "anti PC" stories (for which read pro discrimination against groups the Daily Mail dislikes gays, blacks, muslims and school teachers).

The story notably omits which schools or tyeachers or how many schools, or what areas they are in.

In some areas where there are large muslim populations I can imagine that there are parents who complain about teaching certain things. The same is true when conservatives complain about teaching sex ed or same sex relationships, The Daily Mail is all for parents who don't want their kids to learn science.

Instead of pillioring the teachers we need to support them to ensure that they can teach the curriculum in safety adn with confidence.

Rob S I have to say you cannot denie that more than a couple of left lean boroughs would be ok with this.

History is History, you canot pretent it never happened. I guess if we now taught slavery never happened it would be ok, that the Romans never killed off the celts its ok. Facts are facts I thought i was a crime to say the Holocaust never happened so if someone is teaching that they should be put in the slammer.

When are people going to relise that you cannot go through life without offending someone or other.

Goose, you've been away too long. Those 80s left wing boroughs don't really exist any more. Also the law changed in a couple of ways, firstly the schools have somewhat more autonomy and the councillors can no longer disctate to heads the way they once did and secondly the national curriculum sets down what should be taught. The problem here is that individual teachers are afraid of the reaction of pupils and parents when they teach something the parents disapprove of.

This has long been the case with conservatives adn sex education and is not the problem conservative muslims and history.

Successive Conservative and Labour govts. have give parents more power - this is the result.

As to 'History is History' - I suspect some of those on the board who have studied history would say otherwise. As the cliches goes, "history is written by the victors".

Some differences are blatent others more subtle. In england I learned of the American war of independence. Here my kids will learn of the revolutionary war.
They will learn of the Boston tea party as a protest against the british withour anyone pointing out that it was a protest against a tax cut.

In England I learned about how the British *gave* African nations their independence in the post WW2 tears... not that a weakened colonial power could no longer impose its will on a quarter of the globe and suppress the various independence /revolutionary movements. ( a case of history being written by the losers?).

In the US kids are learning how America won the cold war and forced the collapse of communist eastern Europe. As a first hand witness to thos events, I could teach it a little differently - putting some emphasis of the people of those nations for one thing.

I know I'm a criminal defence lawyer and the following will pander to certain prejudices, but trust me, facts are rarely facts - they are observations and subject recollections, ususally recalled to support a particular prejudice or position.

Finally, I for one realized long ago that I could not get through a day, let alone life, without offending someone - I just try to be selective as to who I offend :wink:

I agree as long as it is taught in social science class, it then becomes part of history, geography and literature, but not if it is taught with one set of beliefs as fact

On further thought, it shouldn't be a separate subject, it is part of history, geography and literature.

I agree with LSQ.
However I get great amusement out of teasing evangelicals here who demand religious education in schools. I point out that religion is taught in UK schools, that we have prayer at assembly and nativity plays and carol concerts and we get a holiday on Good Friday etc. At that far far fewer people in the UK take religion seriously or go to church.

A case of "be careful what you wish for...."
:lol: