British Expatriate Network

The Iragis executed him NOT the occupational forces

Ummm posh don't beat round the Bush lol. But surely it was Iraqi government that hung him. But when we talk of society we have to look at society as a whole and in doing that we are all two faced.

Some places want religious freedoms and a place to prey 5 times a day, but go to the middle east and say you demand that, you would not be around long. As for priest here doing things, I see that happening in many countries including the UK and that surely thats comes down to the Vatican and not an individual country.

Maybe all countries should just sit on their hands and do nothing incase it upset someone.

Hard to give a right answer when you compare like with like. Maybe everyone should just butt out the middle east problem and i guess we can watch nightly them killing each other and say at least they are sorting it out and be happy with that.

No real answer as I said

Where i might agree with you that it has made him a martyr the Iragis triad him and sentenced him to death under there law not american .

it would seem that if american produced most of the pornographic movies in ayear and in 2nd and 3 place are holland and canada that makes the #produced by percentage of citizens far greater in those ** liberal *** countries than in *conservative* usa .

the total inhabitants these countrys *holland and canada *dont amount to a 10th of the population of the usa.
by those facts if true?" im excepting your fiqures to make the point "it means the citizens of canada and holland are producing hundreds of pornos each year per person .No wonder Kieth doesnt have much time to post here anymore ....he must be pretty busy . :lol:

according to count in 2005 the population is as such .

USA .
295.734.134

HOLLAND
15.878.304

CANADA
31.330.255


http://www.worldatlas.com/cntypop.htm

John, this is the link to the article....

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_by_region

It doesn't mention population, but rather the number of industries and films produced and clearly, the US produces more than any other country regards of population size. They have MORE production firms here.... and the point was that Americans are quick to make a lot of noise about a nipple, but love watching the video of Saddam over and over again. I remember my English professor, he somehow mentioned the same thing We "despise" nudity, but like violence and death. He went on and asked "How many of you slowly drive by a scene of an accident???" I think he was trying to say that WE human beings are intrigued by death in general, maybe because he grew-up here he thinks like that, but I surely don't...

I agree with you in some points, but I don't believe that the Iraq government hung him, they are a puppet government...

Also I don't think we should sit and let people around the world do whatever they want, however, we all know that Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction, it was all a bunch of lies. Is anyone going to help Darfur? Will anyone take action against North Korea or Iran??? I am just sad to see these videos circulating the "internets", we should not have to equate ourselves to Saddam by seeing the video, to me this is a matter of principal.

i dunno why either .

i have lived here for 30 years and still cant fiqure out why most movies (even pg13) have gratuitous violence and are shown on network even disney and nothing is blanked out or expelled from the showing ..
.yet the slightest hint of a breast and the whole right wing . admin . pressure groups . . religiuos leaders etc go ape and shout how the country is going to hell and morals are declining .
its a parodox that appears even while the country is calling for peace thoughout the world, the popular media tv . press .ect are showing and discribing acts of unspeakable violance unenpeeded by any form of censorship .

most gratiutous violence seen in present day US movies and tv would be resticted on our european counterparts, yet nudity and talk about sex / genatalia is in most countries a common event .

I am not one for protecting many governments because they all have their floors. they are called people, power and money, but define a puppet government. I did not see any american soldiers frog marching people down to the polling stations to vote. I agree that the US has some influence on the government, but so does alot of other countries, like Iran. As for saying we all knew there was no weapons there. Clearly we did not cuz everyone else thought the same idea to and infact Saddam liked the idea that we thought he had weapons. Served two points for him, one he could look big against the west and two kept Iran at bay from trying to take him over.

Poor intelligance yes got us there, but yea just cannot walk away. Like Powell said"you break it, you own it" and thats true.

Suddan and all that stuff should have been dealt with ages ago but the UN has been sitting on its hands and done nothing and why should America want to help anyone any more, cuz it seems that they get blamed wether they are involved or not, you only have to look at Somalia to see that.

Seems we still do not look back at history to learn the future. History and current day affairs are very much linked, until we can look at things honestly and compare without a pre judgemental view, things will never change.

Here is a def on what a puppet government is

http//www.thefreedictionary.com/puppet+government

Noun 1.Noun 1. puppet government - a government that is appointed by and whose affairs are directed by an outside authority that may impose hardships on those governed./////

And if you still believe that the US "didn't know about whether or not Saddam had weapons even though he had an interest (don't forget the gas used to kill the Kurds was given by this country, how can they give something of this nature to someone that had an interest in weapons of m.d.?) is up to you, we are all entitled to an opinion, but my opinion IS exactly the opposite. To me, it is all about oil and the opportunities for big American interests to own a pice of an oil field.

To me, I see this current presidency as weak and corrupt. On looking for a definition of a puppet gov. I stumbled across a web site (http://www.answer.com) and it had this quote "A government, for protecting business only, is but a carcass, and soon falls by its own corruption and decay. (Amos Bronson Alcott)".

And how true it rings....

And on another note, North Korea has said, openly, that they have a nuke, why Am I not seeing a rush to go over there? Is that because they don't have oil fields??? The fact that when America helps people still complain is wrong, but I understand why people still do it. They simply do not trust this country( the gov.). People always will think on the back of their minds, that the US has some political or economical reason do to such charity. This clearly needs to be resolved by how they behave towards the world in general, throughout history, their involvement on foreign affairs has been a disaster--, just look their involvement in Central and South American affairs in the past.

why would the worlds intelligence agencies all agree that he had weapons, even the French, and russians agreed that one, even when it went to a vote in the UN they agreed he had.

Most of the knowledge and equipment for saddam to make gas weapons came from a great many European companies. Just like a great many countries taking black market oil from saddam when he has sanctions.

Yes, current foreign policy sucks, but you cannot say every foreign policy step taken was crap. Every country takes steps to protect its national interest. the French do it,
British, germans and yes every country in the world.

You cannot take selective events and point the finger without looking at everyone else.

During WW2 the US did not bomb certain places cuz there was an american interest there, but the goal was still the same.


So I guess people would have liked the US to brush down saddam, give him a new shirt and tie and say sorry old boy just a mistake, here's some money and carry on.

Its not that easy, when you F**K up you have to at least try and put it right. I hope they are at least trying to do that, but guess what other countries are doing stuff to protect and gain influence.

The Iraqis only got to try him because the occupation forces set up the tribunal and turned him over for trial.
They only got to execute him because the occupation forces handed him over to them for that specific purpose.

Like it or not, this is an American screw up

saying that all things are equal even if there had been wmd's don't you think the same stuff be happening no matter what, so we would still be in a pile of Shite.

I would put a number on American foreign policy being crap, I believe is around 85% (if not more) crap! They screwed up pretty much in every single Central and South American country, that is a hell of a number of different countries to F(*& with.

The UN was not allowed to continue the search, because the US believed Iraq had W.M.D., they ALONE decided to go to war against Iraq- with the U.K. behind it. I believe Saddam should have been judged at the Hague, just like Slobodan Milosovich and I would rather see him rot in jail, I am totally against the death penalty. He is now a martyr, thanks to the US.


I can say that US foreign Policy is deplorable, despicable and down right disgusting, here are some examples

"In Guatemala in late 70'S

The US trained/supplied around 20,000 army-man. That army runs the gov. and it is a direct descendent of a regime placed in power by the US planned coup in 1954, that overthrew the CONSTITUTIONALLY elected, reformist ARBENZ. The US spread the revolution, and was responsible "indirectly" for the massacre and torture of the Guatemalans.

In Honduras

Country has been mostly ruled by military officers trained and equipped by the United States, the country's dire poverty has been caused partly by foreign exploitation, rampant internal corruption and difficult terrain.

El Salvador

Army slaughters 30,000 after 1932 uprising--Army supplied and trained by the US.

Nicaragua

Modern Nicaragua was shaped by the US military occupation and then created and supported the SAMOSA family dynasty. That family seized most of wealth, including a land area equal to the size of the state of Massachusetts. Meanwhile, 200,000 peasants had no land. Major death was gastrointestinal and parasitic diseases and infant maladies (Walter LaFaber, Inevitable Revolutions, 1993)."

I have many, many more examples of American screw-up on foreign policy, from Mexico all the way to Vietnam, but I don't want to sound too academic and I believe I'll leave that as it is. However, how many more people will have to die for the sake of a few bananas, coffee and oil????


Here is the Final Judgement International War Crimes Tribunal against Bush senior
http//deoxy.org/wc/warcrim2.htm

All nations act in what they currently perceive to be their own best interests. The USA is different only in scale; because of it's size and power, more people are affected when the USA acts.

The foundation for the present problems in Iraq is down the British for the way they arbitrarily broke Arabia into separate countries and fiefdoms, back in the twenties, combining disparate peoples and splitting others.

Agree with you that the British has an upper hand for the way they broke Arabia. However, I won't say it was arbitrarily. The Ottomans occupied much of Arabia and the Arab Forces never saw themselves as a single nation, but rather as a unified partners. Therefore, to say that the British arbitrarily broke Arabia is wrong.

http://www.pbs.org/lawrenceofarabia/revolt/warfare.html


And if anyone wants to read how it is day-to-day life in Baghdad, just take a look at this web site and you can make up your own mind about this invasion.

http://aliveinbaghdad.org/

Gertrude Bell, a long stick and an even longer walk across the arabian desert to deliniate the borders of Iraq, TransJordan and Saudi Arabia.

It falls into my personal definiton of 'arbitrary'.
http://www.gertrudebell.com/news02.htm