British Expatriate Network

Romans 913 refers to how God supposedly didn't like Essau but liked Jacob I think and is used to justify the non-fact that God hated some people and Fred Phelps and co are allowed to hate, under God's banner as well.

Frankly, its all drivel and although a far-fetched example, it does serve to remind some of us that following some mis-translated, ancient text is a recipe for disaster.

No, probably means you're broke.

Then missionaries must be sinners? I heard a sermon a while back saying embrace popular culture and non-believers because through your example they can come to the Lord. Face it, is being friends with a gay person is more likely to being him or her to Christ than pretending that they don't exist.

looks like the problem here is the word got out that he was"gay *
had they not known this they would have been delighted to have him as a customer . so in that respect they are discriminating .

dont matter what you personal feeling are we all have personal choices .

what if some company refused you service cus you was a christian you would be shouting * discrimination* at the top of your voice ....

associating with them socially and agrreeing /supporting what they do is a differant story thats your personal choice pick you own friends i always have .
its a big world there is room for everybody .

personal stuff is not in the same catagory as refusing a tenant because of pets or bad credit .
in my rentals in uk i didnt allow pets , or except anybody with bad credit , the home was not suitable for pets being over my residence they with nowhere to put cat litter or let the dog out without walking thou my private rooms . and it was a no nsmoking home ( health and fire hasard )

bad credit excludes i person by itself, no law is going to make you take a person who has been unable or unwilling to honour there depts
.
had a gay couple as tenants once *2 guys* they were polite payed rent on time and left the flat as clean as when they moved in .
didnt bother me at all .
better than some scum bag tenants we have had here in US .

we had one in VA who went to church and didnt pay the rent from the first month, had to get him evicted . did his being a christian make any differance NO ??


As i say personal stuff is nobodys bisiness unless its illegal . when it comes to renting/ home buying and employment . criminal record is far more important woul,nt d like to have a pedifile in my home or a drug dealer .



on my application in UK i never asked about religion sexual preferances or politics just rental/work history, credit check / criminal history and agreement not to have pets .
very depth inquiry about work ./ rental /credit history nothing else .


you forget acording to the book you believe in what jesus said .

love they niegbour as theyself , do unto others as you would have done to you ...

jesus must be disapointed with you .typical bible basing holier than thou attitude

OK just backing up a little here...... apparently the website clearly states they are against homosexuality. The customer must be openly gay for them to risk writing that in a letter..... doesn't it smell a little like the potential customer might have been spoiling for a fight?

As for the discrimination question..... race is clearly not something a customer would have any choice over. Neither is sex -yet discrimination is still allowed on this basis, for example nightclubs here often only advertise that there is no cover charge for ladies (implying that there is for men)

Religion and sexuality are different. There are some who would say that both are a choice, some who would say that you are born with both, and many who would argue that one is a choice and the other isn't. And all the shades in between.

Would many people be outraged if a business refused a drug addict as a client? Yet there are arguments that addicts are born rather than created.

I don't really have a problem with the company refusing the business of the potential client on those grounds. I think they were stupid and are going to get their just desserts, business-wise. ) (Small list of bush-wannabe clients, no gays, lots of bad press. Couldn't wish them anything nastier if I cared enough to spend the time to think about it P)

Does this help,

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52554

BIZNETDAILY
Christian landscaper won't soil
hands with work for 'gay' clients
Business owners refuse to tiptoe through tulips
– decision sparks call for anti-discrimination law
Posted: October 21, 2006
6:20 p.m. Eastern


© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com



Farber family
A Houston landscaping company is under fire for turning down a job because its Christian owners have a policy of not working for homosexual customers – a decision that has spurred calls for a boycott and an anti-discrimination ordinance that would prevent them from selecting clients based on sexual orientation.

Todd and Sabrina Farber have owned and operated The Garden Guy since 1991 and, like other landscape contractors, use the Internet to show the quality of their past work and to solicit future business.



The Garden Guy was just one of the landscaping businesses Michael Lord and Gary Lackey, a homosexual couple who has been together for nine years, requested bids from earlier this week for the new home they're building in Houston Heights. Lord said he found The Garden Guy through an Internet search and liked the "before and after" pictures on the website.

"We sent e-mails to several local landscaping companies asking for quotes. Garden Guy called Michael back saying they would like to bid," Lackey told the Houston Voice. Lord called the company Wednesday morning to set up an appointment.

[size=18]"Michael was asked if 'his wife would be home' when the consultation would take place. He brushed it off, but when he was asked again if his wife would be joining, Michael said, "No, but my partner Gary will be.'
[/size]
"Michael set up the appointment, but a few minutes later we got the e-mail."

That e-mail has now become the subject of a nationwide online debate.

Subject: Cancel Appt – Garden Guy

Dear Mr. Lord,

I am appreciative of your time on the phone today and glad you contacted us. I need to tell you that we cannot meet with you because we choose not to work for homosexuals.

Best of luck in finding someone else to fill your landscaping needs.

All my best,

Sabrina

Todd and Sabrina Farber
Owners, Garden Guy, Inc.

After receiving the e-mail, Lord called Lackey.

"He was in shock," Lackey said. "We just couldn't believe that had happened."

Lackey forwarded the e-mail to about 200 of his friends, asking that they not patronize Garden Guy in the future.

Had Lord looked more closely he would have seen that the Farbers were very upfront with their faith. Beneath a photo of the couple and their four children, the Farbers wrote:

The God-ordained institution of marriage is under attack in courts across the nation, and your help is needed.
Go to: http://www.nogaymarriage.com to take action.

Ephesians 5:8 (Amplified Bible)
... For once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of Light and lead the lives of those native-born to the Light.

(Story continues below)



That stance shortly became the topic of discussion online and in the homosexual press. The Farbers quickly set up a forum on their website but it was taken down Thursday, possible because of the crude language of some posters.

"I am embarrassed for you and your husband," wrote "Chris." "Just as you choose not to do business with us, I, my friends, my family, my co-workers and everyone I meet, will not do business with you! I have sent your e-mail to over 50 people I know and work with. These people know 50 others each ... was your bigotry worth it?"

Some critics noted that the Garden Guy website stated that the business was a member of the Association of Professional Landscape Designers, a claim disputed by the trade organization's president in a statement criticizing the Farbers.

Amid the threats of boycotts and criticism of the Farber's faith, one poster found the angry messages to be the problem:

"There is more hate in these posts than in the original e-mail," wrote "Dave." "Why do you feel that we Christians MUST accept you? Don't you find it ironic that while you demand in one breath that we give up our position that homosexuality is a sin worthy of hell, that you condemn us to that very place in your next?"

A copy of the temporary forum site can be viewed here.

And while they've refused to talk with the media, the Farbers issued a public explanation for their decision:

To the Houston media

We did not refuse service with malicious intent. We do not hate homosexuals and we are sorry that we hurt Michael Lord and Gary Lackey. We meant to uphold our right as a small business owner to choose who our clients are. We are humbly sorry for the hurt that it has caused.

Respectfully,

Todd and Sabrina Farber

That may not be enough, though. Some in the homosexual community are angry that what the Farbers did was not illegal.

"That's the biggest issue. This is not against the law and that is a travesty," Jerry Simoneaux, an attorney who specializes in homosexual issues told Houston's KHOU-TV.

He noted other cities like Austin, Dallas, Fort Worth and El Paso have adopted ordinances that would prohibit similar discrimination.

"We need something like that in Houston, but we don't have it," said Simoneaux.

The response to the Farber's decision has not been universally negative.

The American Family Association issued a statement defending their business decision, saying, "Todd, like millions of Americans, obviously has a moral conviction based on his religious beliefs against homosexual behavior and that lifestyle. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that."


Bunnies on the Bayou

Lord and Lackey say they have received "lots of offers and recommendations" for a new landscaper.

Both men are listed as "hosts" for the homosexual group Bunnies on the Bayou, a Texas 501©3 charity that raises money for AIDS-related organizations and art groups. Bunnies was selected to serve as organization grand marshal for the 2006 Houston Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual & Transgender Pride Parade.

help what/whom?

You can tell they're homophobic though -look at the hair! No-one in that family has been to a salon in a while! Someone hide the pudding bowl and Bryl cream!

See there again the landscape company didnt show respect for other views

asking * will you wife be home * is assuming
(1) the person is married
( 2 ) they are not gay .

presumably if the person had answered no im not married but the Girl /boy i share a home with will be .

what would the landscape campanies answer be then if its a girl are you married .?if its a man are you gay ?
what the hell has it got to do with them !

im the last one on here to be P.E as you all know , but being in sales the question should have been ... will there be somebody at home ?? a open question ...

Then the answer should have been *( fill in the name ) will be there * and he /she will take care of bisiness ..

end of story .. nooone is offended no one is judged .

Why would anyone eat sauerkraut out of a can?

home improvement companies are weird. When we had the windows quoted for they wanted us both to be there, They claimed it was because if the house was in joint names they needed both signatures, but when it came to signing the contract there was only one space.... :roll:

In this case they asked the question deliberately because they wanted to judge, John. They considered that they had a right to do so. There was no political correctness intended, it was no accidental lack of care and consideration. he question is, should they had a right to do so, or should the law force them to deal with gay people despite their religious beliefs?

/tempted to hire them to landscape me a garden based around a shrine to the devil and filled with phallic statuary.

That old chestnut. Just means they want to make sure the husband knows his little woman is spending some money. :roll:

Anyway, I'm sure a lot of Christians have gay mates. Can't really see why it's an issue.

So monster, are you going to refuse to deal with people who don't have finely styled hair ? grin

The reason, they wanted to know if the wife would be there is simply business. If the man is allowed to place the order for work, the wife will not like what is done and demand changes. It's the same with buying a car. One of the first questions is "Does anyone else have a say in the selection of this car?" They don't want to spend time cutting a deal with one person only to have it vetoed later.

A-HAH!

Didn't Jesus himself associate with prostitutes and tax-collectors?????

Now that I have had a chance to read the rest of all this, I'll add my belated twopenn'orth.

If I were a small business owner I would respectfully decline to do business with anyone I felt uncomfortable with. I would reserve it as my right to do so.

If these people had it on their website that they are against gay marriage, perhaps monster is right and the gay couple were spoiling for a fight. Rightly or wrongly, though, I think they should be allowed to reserve the right to refuse to do business with anyone they are uncomfortable with.

If it was made illegal to discriminate against potential clientele, it could lead to some very difficult situations.

Finally. If the gardening business were to agree to work for the gay couple against their own principles, they would be guilty of hypocrisy which is not good for them either.

For those of you who dismiss Christianity as a load of twaddle: it is my view that there are very few real Christians in the world and many millions who think they are and behave like one for about five minutes a week. Oh and Jesus wasn't a good Jew, probably wouldn't have wanted people to follow him like sheep (he wanted people to turn to God) and definitely wasn't "holier than thou" either.

Didn't say it was a sin. It said avoid contact with people who are not following the Word. I do that when I need to. At other times I stick around (like here :grin: )

Very true. But as I am uncomfortable around certain people I will let others take on that burden and I will work on other non-believers. We are the Body of Christ, some of us just have to be the spleen from time to time. Others are more likely to be the ears, mouth, hands and feet.

condition?

heal and cleanse?