British Expatriate Network

Well, this says it all about this society, better save some money folks, just in case!



http//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14928825/

She may have been poor when incasarated ,BUT she got the money to buy the cocaine from somewhere .

if she had not broken probation and used cocaine she would be able to pay her bills

To a point John.
It is little unjust if someone effectively gets a more severe sentence because they happen to be poor. I agree that the fine has to be either paid or some other sentence must be substituted - otherwise the sentence would be undermined.
However, jail was wholly unjustified and entirely counterproductive.

It will have cost more than $705 per day to keep her in jail. In that time she is at risk of returning to using drugs and unable to work and improve her prospects. People in jail are far more likely to reoffend than those with some form of non custodial sentence.
Typically I argue (successfully) for some form of community service that forces the convicted person to contribute to society on their own time and costs the state nothing.

Incarceration of those using drugs without rehabilitation of some sort NEVER works. I have seen this before, my uncle used cocaine and got into jail, did his time and when he left, he did it again. When you have an addiction, it is hard to stop, ask smokers for example. I am not saying she is right, but whether or not she used the money to buy her drugs is besides the point here, the main thing is that she is poor and stayed longer in jail.. The poor of this country aren't getting health care, education and now if they don't have money to pay a fine, they get to say in jail longer than they should, is this fair? I guess not, and I agree with Rob on this one.

It would of course be ideal if society could put all of the non violent offenders on some sort of community service i would be in favour of that . In texas we are striving towards that aim, i see many folks at the animal shelter were i volunteer doing community service for offences that years ago would have ment a jail sentence .
And most of them seem better of for it when they are finally released ( completed there hours )

in the case quoted above the lady was doing some sort of work release programe but the fiqures didnt seem to work right for her ,its not a perfect system as you know and this one if the facts are as stated doesnt seem to help to get her rehabitated at all , also this was not her first offence ,so we come to the point of how many chances do we give somebody expecially those who wont help themselves lead a more productieve life ?.

on that point you and I disagree .

John
The halfway house did work, the problem was that her income was eaten up by her rent, travel costs and meagre needs for toiletries.
Therefore the State puther in a posisition where she could not afford to pay the fine and then jailed her.
A more appropriate response would have been to either extend her dealing for paying fine or, more realistically, give her a community service order. As you say, they can be beneficial.
She served time for the other offences and the failure to pay the fine wasn't recalcitrance but the force of circumstances.
It cost upwards of $1000 a day to keep someone in jail - for a $705 fine - the judicial response was plain stupid.

John, much as I enjoy your company on here, there are times when you get right up my nose.

My immediate thought on reading the above was, "Here we go, Mr Effing Perfect, never broke a law in his life, is now passing judgement" :lol:

The fine was suspended from a conviction in 1990, 16 years ago. And she was still under that probation! after sixteen years!. Probation should have a reasonable limit and at that point, the punishment should be considered, "paid in full"

Dont know what backwood state you hire from but in texas they get the same education as *richer kids * and there is a state health programe for uninsured kids .
no body is turned away from tax funded hospitals

uhh? I am in no backwood state, I am in Virginia. And if you say the poor get the same education you are dreaming. One example, I can say this because I have worked in a local school, let's take the breakfast as example. Rich kids get, poor kids don't. And I say don't because we ran a breakfast club at the school and all of the poor kids were there to eat. We, as a school, decided to do that because there is a correlation between nutrition and education. Not all schools offer that service. Schools in D.C. have a huge problem with that and they have now :roll: decided to give breakfast before class. Also, poorer kids not only have an economical disadvantage but also emotional distress. If you think this doesn't influence education, then again you are not seeing the whole picture. To get out of poverty is an enormous task, possible but one must persevere. It is hard to teach when you know that the child won't be doing the homework required because he has to work to help his mom or dad. I cannot sit here and say that all kids get the same education, because they don't. The schools vary, in Sterling they aren't so good and in Leesburg they are good. 12 miles difference, same building, same way of teaching but somehow in Sterling they don't get a good education.

Kids get health insurance, but what about the parents? Read this book by Susan Sered, Uninsured in America and then you can make an opinion. More than 40 million people are without health care, in a country that prides itself for being the land of opportunity. For God's sake, this is a first world country with problems from 3, 4 world nations and I find this distressing.

Robs

Maybe you can refresh my memory, but I thought a study in the UK showed 80 % of those inside in the UK, committed crimes to support their habit???

That's terrible :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

If you qualify the very poor mostly disabled and old thou can get coverage under medicair your statement was the poor dont get medical coverage rather sweeping some are covered under govt probrames those mostly with out coverage are those just above the poverty level in low paid unskilled jobs unfortunatly we cant compel employers to offer health insurance to everybody .

John, much as I enjoy your company on here, there are times when you get right up my nose.

My immediate thought on reading the above was, "Here we go, Mr Effing Perfect, never broke a law in his life, is now passing judgement" :lol:

The fine was suspended from a conviction in 1990, 16 years ago. And she was still under that probation! after sixteen years!. Probation should have a reasonable limit and at that point, the punishment should be considered, "paid in full"[/quote


sorry you dont like my posts but truthfully i dont give a shit what you think.

im answering the oringinal post as to why the lady was in such a terrible situation we all agree there . the post solicited opinions and im giving mine

your passing judgement on me in your post you dont know me but the truth is i am in fact PERFECT .



On the few facts we know.

( not knowing wether she had other convictions not neccasarily for drug use ) we cannot pass judgement / give opinions on wether the probations was ecccesive or not ..many probations are for long periods .


but of course you can as you know something we dont .....

just because a *opinion* is made as to what action resulted in the situatiion the lady finds herself in doesnt mean the poster thinks he are she is perfect .

if that was the case dicussions on this board would be at a minimum .


i would hold the same opinion if it was me .. we are ALL responsible for our actions.

cus you dont see a situations the same as another poster it no reason to get your pants in a twist ..

Not sure if you are referring to my posts and I can't quote figures.
However, in the UK an significant majority of certain crims, theft, muggings, robbery in particular, can be attributed to funding drug addictions.

When I did criminal defence in the East End, I'd estimate that a good 90% of my work was in someway linked to illegal drugs - mostly crack. People possessing, selling, buying, manufacturing or stealing to get funds to buy.

None of which answers the issue in this thread.

Yes we can.
In fact, very soon, Massachusetts will.
Damn liberals wanting people to be healthy.
They need a good dose of conservative values... like needless disease and death.
:roll: