Geeze what is going on over the past couple of days about ABC and this Docu drama??? All I am hearing is it not showing the truth etc etc. Do not people understand what a Drama is ?
Fahrenheit 9/11 was the same, as was the twin towers and other films made about 911. Make's you wonder at the people that come out at of these movies thinking that the movie was all fact.
Could you not say all films like saving private ryan was a Docu drama now. They are all very loosely based on something.
The problem is that it clearly dumps all the blame onto the Clinton administration and ignores or negates the faults that the Bush administration made.
The timing, just before Bush's speech on Monday is unavoidable but the combination of the two is a recipe for misinformation. It's like a mini-series political ad, as currently described.
The irony is that when another mini-series was about to be lauched a few years back about the Reagans, the right wingers howled and moaned for weeks until it eventually was kicked off the CBS schedule and moved to the less accessible Showtime.
I am amused by the very late in the day editing that is supposedly going on. With any luck, after all the cuts are made, it'll only be one part -)
I agree with what you said pilgrim. The right done a lot of howling, not just with the reagan thing either. That made me laugh to, cuzz all they done was get people to go and watch it lol. It's all just a tv series, just as Sharp is and yes minister etc etc.
Anything on TV can be based around fact, but 99% of it is just a story. If people can not understand that and think its all real, they have no brain. Maybe they should all have health warns on them lol. They will could all soon start believing super man was a real person lol and Santa does have a house in the north pole (he ' does'nt does he lol)
If people can not understand that and think its all real, they have no brain.
That's pretty much hitting the nail on the head. The majority cannot differentiate between truth and fiction - a look at most polls underlines this unfortunate fact. Why do you think political ads are so important here? The winner of an election usually has the most money to buy the most or best ads which carry enormous influence (and if that fails, there's always the Supreme Court!)
The howling comes about because one side assumes (correctly) that the majority of viewers will take what they see at face value. If you take most of what you see on TV with a pinch of salt, then you are definitely in a minority.
http//www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/archivehour/pip/tlgfx/
The Archive hour are doing a program called New York reflections, five years on. It's very good. very harrowing and consists of interviews with those who worked in the area and survived, just plain old factual stuff. maybe it's because it has no pictures and you listen to the descriptions of people who were there it carries, for me, more weight. It also shows the black humor of New York, when counsellors were brought in, not for the firefighters or rescue teams, but for the dogs caught up in the event. It is also done from an outside point of view, so there are descriptions of what was never shown here, and tapes of phone calls we've yet to have released in this country.
if facts be known GB 1 knew of Ben Laden and could have also dealt with him.
Truth is he crept up on everyone. BL was a small time player at the time and the west was looking at more important stuff at the time. We have to face it that you can never investigate every single thing and have all angles covered.
Just look how local cops deal with a local breaking, especially in the UK. If the guy is no longer on the property they don't usually care. They are dealing with some guy beating 8 bells of S*it out of someone.
Anything on TV can be based around fact, but 99% of it is just a story. If people can not understand that and think its all real, they have no brain.
Yes, but that's the idea. How do the Republicans manage to be elected? After all, they're only looking after the rich. Through gubbins like this, fear, illusions and hearsay. People with no brains fall for this sort of stuff - I believe around 51% of the electorate. Iraq has weapons of mass destruction they said. Everyone on here bar the right wing nutjobs knew it wasn't true. The right wing nutjobs of 2003 by the way are conspicuous by their absence. JoonLoon, the bloke with the Arnie avatar, Horatio Underpants. Though I believe they made a brief appearance to gloat about King George II's coronation in 2004.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/archivehour/pip/tlgfx/
The Archive hour are doing a program called New York reflections, five years on. It's very good. very harrowing and consists of interviews with those who worked in the area and survived, just plain old factual stuff. maybe it's because it has no pictures and you listen to the descriptions of people who were there it carries, for me, more weight. It also shows the black humor of New York, when counsellors were brought in, not for the firefighters or rescue teams, but for the dogs caught up in the event. It is also done from an outside point of view, so there are descriptions of what was never shown here, and tapes of phone calls we've yet to have released in this country.
Thanks for the link. I listened to it and it was quite good.
Strangely, after the programme ends, the announcer says that "The Path to 9-11" is on BBC 2 the next day. They got that over to UK pretty quickly then and does that mean no edits whatsoever in UK? If so, then I doubt it will be devoured so gullibly there.
Fahrenheit 9/11 was the same, as was the twin towers and other films made about 911. Make's you wonder at the people that come out at of these movies thinking that the movie was all fact.
The problem is that Fahrenheit 9/11 isn't on in primetime, whereas this propagmovie is.
Watched the first part - seemed to be presented ok and was fast-paced and watchable.
Still a complete propagmovie, as adeshell says.
I counted at least 3 pauses at the start, middle and end where ABC put up white-on-black subtitles to let you know it was not a documentary but it still alluded to Clinton and staff being distracted by the Lewinsky scandal and not going after bin Laden.
Doubt they will be as even-handed with Bush and his "My Pet Goat" distraction on 9-11.
if facts be known GB 1 knew of Ben Laden and could have also dealt with him.
Truth is he crept up on everyone. BL was a small time player at the time and the west was looking at more important stuff at the time. We have to face it that you can never investigate every single thing and have all angles covered.
Just look how local cops deal with a local breaking, especially in the UK. If the guy is no longer on the property they don't usually care. They are dealing with some guy beating 8 bells of S*it out of someone.
I know its all water under the you know what, but they were warned about OBL. Ollie North testified as such at the Iran Contra Hearings. He said that OBL was the most evil, dangerous man on earth and should be hunted down and killed. The senator chairing the commitee who ignored the warning....Al Gore.
If people can not understand that and think its all real, they have no brain.
The problem with this is that it portrays living members of the Clinton administration saying and doing things that they did not do. They have conversations where Richard Clark says that Clinton is sidetracked by the Lewinsky problem, but that didn't happen. They were saying it was based on the 9/11 comission report, but that report specifically said that Clinton was not distracted.
A couple of exterts have said that the critics version, would leave ABC open to suit for defamation.
To be fair, I thought that Bush's people looked worse than Clinton's.
I mean, we got to see a quick "My Pet Goat" moment at the start, with archive footage of Bush before his famous deer-in-headlights 3 minutes.
Worse though was Condoleeza Rice's role, which pulled no punches and made her look like an incompetent bitch who demoted Clarke and ignored his warnings - which I believe is pretty much how it was.
Clarke asks where Rumsfeld is, when they are trying to ascertain if they have clearance to shoot down the passenger jets, suggesting he was not available and also mentioning that the President had not yet giving permission because he also was not in touch at that moment.
It also indirectly criticised Ambassador Barbara Bodine's role in blocking most of O'Neal's investigation in Yemen, into the USS Cole attack. I know she's a career diplomat so perhaps not an overt Bush-co member but was working for Bush Sr. during the first go around in Iraq, over a decade ago.
havnt watched either programe and dont intend to but hear the rumble and bitching about them every time I turn on the box .
Every thing that is now feed to the general public by tv ,radio ,or newspapers is politicaly slanted one way or the other as election time is almost apon us .
all of it has some truth ,some lies, some supposition ,some contrived drama ,but as was stated in a earlier post its just a MOVIE, or at best somebody opinion based on rumour
Why do folks choose to believe all they see and hear on any of the entertianment/ information mediums ?
Better still why do folks believe what they want to believe and then complain when something else is presented to them ?
watch football and soccer ( or sport of your choice ) on the weekend ,baseball ,tennis all week and the accasional feature on channelsl like health , animal planet , or share a good laugh with the comedy channel and your lives will be richer by far .
It was shown here unedited on cable. I can certainly see why Democrats were pissed off about it considering some of it was supposed to be fake but true. Whatever that means. I read Madeliene Albright saying virtually all the scenes of her in it are entirely fictional. Whole conversations that insinuated blame and incompetence just pulled out of somebodies ass. Now that's just wrong. I'll say this too - is it me or was every female character in the documentary depicted as a demented megalomaniacal ball-crushing bitch who only got the job because she's a woman?