Often wondered what's your take on this? When does it all become to much?
Would you consider moving else where if it got to bad?
Some ways its good to have loads of security, but the way its used is the real concern. Imagine if Hitler had all the names and address's of every Jew, what he could have done.
what could you be happy with?
A dessert island with champagne fountains wink
only champagne fountains lol, what about good food as well lol
Well, I went for pudding, dessert, or have i got that spelling wrong again? It's like driving directions, we have left, right and straight down the middle. If there's only two choices, it's just confusing. wink
Some ways its good to have loads of security, but the way its used is the real concern. Imagine if Hitler had all the names and address's of every Jew, what he could have done.
Didn't he anyway? Thought that eventually laws were passed, ordering Jews to register - not to mention the other laws about wearing the Star of David or having it displayed on business premises.
Back in 21st century USA, it's all about the Benjamins and a certain tightening up of control by the government. So long as you remember that money is the name of the game and it is less about actually being secure, you don't have to worry too much about the restrictions and fear-mongering.
The government buys into it because their friends get rich, the people do as they say without as much dissent as usual and it helps to gel their support around election time.
Realistically, few of us face the same restrictions and fear that certain people in the Third Reich had to deal with but really, we should all reject this scare-mongering for what it really is - an excuse to mint money.
Pilgrim
To extent you I agree with you. Whatever the Bush administration is, it is not the Third Reich.
However, if you are a muslim in this country, particularly a non-citizen muslim - then you do have reason to be fearful.
There are a litany of cases over the past five years of muslims being detained without charge or trial, illegally deported to third nations to be tortured or held by the CIA in secret jails or transferred to Gitmo.
All of these processes are extra judicial and designed to deny basic civil, human and constitutional rights.
But worst of all, the basis for most of these dententions is that theindividuals are muslims who the US *believes* are linked in some vague way with militant islam, terrorism of groups that might have supported or funded terrorism.
In several cases it has transpired that the information upon which the dentention were authorized was flawed and inaccurate (someone witht he same name, a malicious tip, xenophobic ignorances, inaccurate translation of information from third party etc.)
Because of the denial of due process and the reliance on *secret evidence*, the accused (and I use that word loosely as some have not even been accused of anything) - innocent people have been detained without trial, tortured and possibly even killed.
This isn't merely about the Benjamins or scare mongering. It is about a now authoritan State run amok and being unaccountable. For some people in America, this is indeed a police state.
This isn't merely about the Benjamins or scare mongering. It is about a now authoritan State run amok and being unaccountable. For some people in America, this is indeed a police state.
I agree that for a certain group of people here, the fear factor is definitely there but just as Londonsquare reaches for Okam's razor when figuring things out, so I look to who gains from any changes and money obviously plays a large part.
If not, we'd be seeing the best anti-terrorist techniques, the best anti-smuggling/bomb detection equipment in airports and countless air marshalls/law enforcement officals being hired left, right and centre. At some point, the cost seems to creep in and in a Ford (Pinto-esque) type equation, it's just not worth putting THAT much money into it after all.
The US does however like to distribute the same money to other beneficiaries, like defense contractors, security contractors (read: mercenaries) who have arguably contributed very little to actually making the country safer - in some cases, they have contributed to make it unsafer, gelling the anti-American support in Iraq.
I do agree with you though that secret trials, lack of representation and torture techniques are certainly not far away from the activities of the Geheime Staatspolizei.
Pilgrim, this isn't homeland security, but may illustrate your point
http//msnbc.msn.com/id/14704366/
Sad, isn't it?
People should trade in their yellow magnets for more realistic ones, although there really is no need to display 'Support our defense contractors' - they're doing great, thanks!
You are all right about the fact that this government and friends bank on fear, and most Americans buy into it. As long as we have people such as this, see comment and others on web site, Americans will be seen as around the world as ignorant. They only complain when it hits their wallets and when the nice big house cannot be bought. I have lived here long enough to believe that most could care less about what is going on around the globe and only a few are actually interested in Sudan and AIDS in Africa.
She should be forbidden to vote!
"There are some people, and I'm one of them, that believe George Bush was placed where he is by the Lord," Tomanio said. "I don't care how he governs, I will support him. I'm a Republican through and through."
CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/07/s...index.html
Paradise: My favorite place is Buzios Rio de Janeiro. Nice people, safe, friendly locals, laid back, sunny, good schools, good restaurants, good health care.
http://www.buziosonline.com.br/indexe.htm
Some interesting points from all.
Rob you said "However, if you are a muslim in this country, particularly a non-citizen muslim - then you do have reason to be fearful."
In most case's how do you tell a non US muslim from a US muslim's?? the fact is you can not. People say use Profiling, yes I agree, but some people just tend to us profiling as the only reason to arrest.
Profiling is a tool, but can only be used as an effective tool in conjunction with other tools. Not as the be all and end all and with any profile they tend to evolve over a period of time as situations change.
Thats why the UK has a leg up on the US in events liken this. Just like the UK told the US how to fight in the far east, but was ignored.
Think pilgrim spoke about defence contractors, ummmm was it not suggested that they knocked off kennedy cuz he wanted to pull out of the far east and they would lose money etc.
Think what it all comes down politicing and scoring points or just give the impression that you are hitting the mark.
Goose,
It is very easy to find out if someone is a citizen or non-citizen... you just ask them.
My point about non-citizens is that we have less rights that USC's, even if we are permenant residents and even if we are detained in the USA.
I might argue that constitutional protections apply, but the Bush position is that this is a war and that the executive has wartime powers to detain non-citizens as 'enemy combatants' and that the constitution does not apply.
Also, even permanent residents can be detained by immigration on technical violations of their immigration status (not carrying your permanent resident's card for example).
In reality DHS won't arrest you ar me for such things. But if they wanted to detain someone they thought was a terrorist or potentially a terrorist or merely a radical islamist - but they cannot show 'Probable Cause' - such a technical violation provided the grounds to detain, without trial or charge.
Accountability for such actions is minimal and many people - almost exclusively Muslims - have been detained in this way since 2001. Of those, a unknown but probably significant number have been deported to other nations for the purpose of interrogations that take place outside of US law (i.e. so they can be tortured). The nations known to have been involved are Egypt, Saudi, Syria and Pakistan.
This quote just gets my back up:
"There are some people, and I'm one of them, that believe George Bush was placed where he is by the Lord," Tomanio said. "I don't care how he governs, I will support him. I'm a Republican through and through."
The apparent like-for-like substitution of "Christian" with "Republican" by people who are staunch Republicans is something they have no right to do. I can't say that any president who kills so many people in the process of some "crusade" is a true Christian.
As much as the Democrats are unelectable with their numerous political stances against Christian beliefs, so are the Republicans. They are all wide of the mark.
Forgive me, I don't want to start a firestorm or anything, but can you tell me what Democrats have said that is unchristian?
When I said "As much as the Democrats are unelectable with their numerous political stances against Christian beliefs" I was referring to Republican campaign material. Things like abortion, gay marriage, all the stuff that the Democrats want to allow, and the Republicans want to eradicate based on their Christian beliefs. All the moral issues where the Republicans are sooooooo much better than those that vote against them, cos they are the Christian ones. Yah right.