British Expatriate Network

Isn't it about time to admit it was wrong to attack Iraq and get UK troops out? The same applies to Afghanistan.
http//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060506/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_060504173977

Both were huge mistakes, based upon the belief that the power of the US military would be all conquering and bring democracy.

I agree with you about Iraq Keith, I've always thought it a mistake to attack Iraq, at least under the justification given, but not necessarily Afghanistan. At least it's possibly nearer to Bin Laden's location, not that I think Al-Qaida won't survive perfectly well without him.

I think in the case of both places now, the west now owes it to the people there to do everything it can not to leave them so unstable that all hell breaks loose as soon as the west pulls out. It would be unforgivable at this point to allow the Taliban to come back, I think.

Afghanistan is a mess and the only so called democracy is in a small area close to Kabul. The rest of the country is either run by war lords or the Taliban. And the Opium growing is back to pre Taliban times.

In both Iraq and Afghanistan travel is extremely dangerous and security forces are overwhelmed. ( And is getting worse)

Troops are not the answer, most of the inhabitants don't want foreigners in their countries.

As usual the west has made a total mess of things. Do the Vietnam solution. Get out and leave it to the people to sort out. ( With a bit of financial help)

I have mentioned this before, get our boys out of Afghanistan and Iraq! Afghanistan is growing opium and it will continue because they have an economy based on the export of opium, in the end it is all about profit.

Iraq is a mess, Bush should go to Guantanamo and be held there without a chance of a fair trial. He is a liar and wants to drag the international community into another Iraq and Afghanistan. Bush is a catalog of failures, but these failures have cost lives of many innocent people and soldiers, enough is enough.

I would say in the end it's all about people trying to feed themselves and their families and so they grow what sells.

I think it is to simplistic to just say pull the troops out as both countries will implode and spill over to other countries in the region. If you think gas is expensive now, just think what it would be like if that happened.

They have made loads of mistakes. Like not having the man power or equipment to do the job. The biggest mistake is once again letting political people call the shots instead of the military.

You are not going to get to many active senior military types saying it sucks when they are trying to maintain a career. We all know when you buck the system the system bucks you.

We have to face it we are there now and we have to make something work. I would like to think if the UN could actually grow up and get some guts they should put some people in.

Just so everyone knows the Brits are in Afghanistan under a NATO mandate.

It may sound simplistic but it was done in Vietnam.

So it may make gas expensive for a few years. Are American going to continue accepting the wasting precious lives just so they can have cheap gas?
Much better that, than to continue wasting lives and money on a military solution.

BTW I don't think gas is expensive. It actually costs about the same as the bottled water that almost every young American/Canadian carries around with them. Thats something you never saw until recently.

Keith I don't think its expensive either, god help them if we paid british price's here
lol

The fact remains that you cannot have an unstable middle east. For the world would just plummet into world recession. America can not pull out just like Vietnam. (ummm sounds like a contraceptive method lol). cuz it sends the wrong signal i.e you have no backbone for the long haul.

Things are never as easy as a simple statement, when you place something on the world scale, compared to what is happening in your back garden.

I was not really happy why we went there to begin with, but now we are there we have to make it work.

Imagine what signal it would send to Iran and other tin pot dictators around the world .

Its good to debate, at least we can do that here, compared to other places on this small green and blue planet lol

Unfortunately I don't see any change in Iraq or Afghanistan in the near future.

The ethnic makeup of both countries make it almost impossible for a democratic central government such as we know in the west. The divisions are too deeply imbedded for any western style democracy to develop in the next 10+ years. And the longer the US stays the worse it will get.

The present US administration must know that the task is futile and it will be up to a new one that takes over in 2008 to do the right thing and admit the past mistakes. At the very least remove most of the military and possibly replace it with a Marshall Aid type plan.

We in the west do not understand the mentality of middle east peoples and should just leave then to sort out their own problems.

ummm now thats a brain teaser Keith, that we don't understand the people of the Middle east lol. We have in common that we are people lol. I know people that call themselves the real Germans cuz they a Prussian . But they united the country we now call Germany.

A Marshal plan would be good and that has started with all the rebuilding going on there at the moment, but a small number want to upset that program. You cannot rebuild when someone keeps blowing it up.

Freedom, I mean whats that? it means something different to everyone. What does the greater good mean??? means something different to each and everyone of us.

Yea have to laugh at the end of the day life is to short

As ex-pats, we often give advice.. 'you cant judge the place til ya live there'. And yet, as the so called "Civilized" world, we listen to politicians et al and say.. YES.. bring democracy and freedom to them! A majority of people believing everything they see on TV, never researching, just taking in sound bytes between the game, the show, the reality series etc.... of course we have to believe our 'free' press ! *chokes*

All these "wars"..... they aren't wars against anything, they are to make sure there IS a war on (insert word here)....... so much money to be made by the big players, and at the expense of the little people. As a Neil Finn song starts "History never repeats, I tell myself, before I go to sleep".......

War on Terror? The latest slogan. Be fearful, accept all this spying and chipping, and ID's.. it will make you safe.... HAH!

Real easy to have a backbone when you're not the one laying your life on the line every day. America can pull the hell out and hand it over to a muslim-led coalition under a UN banner - then say "whatever it costs to repair this country we'll pay for it." What about the instability in Africa, the ex-Soviet satellite states (like Chechnya), the Basque ETA separatists, even the Shining Path freaks in Peru... it's okay to have those places unstable?

The signal is - if you don't want Uncle Sam to invade, have nuclear weapons. Look at that NK loony tune. There's a very distinct possibility that the NK missiles can reach Tokyo. I don't see anyone telling us how we should invade NK and free their citizens. I don't see anyone on this side of the pond standing up for the rights of the poor bastards getting massacred in the Sudan. I didn't see anyone standing up for the poor bastards in Rwanda either.

Or do you mean the tinpot dictator of Uzbekistan who likes to have political opponents boiled alive? He's on our side in the War on Terra so that's perfectly acceptable behaviour?

From the err CIA umm "fact book"

the country seeks to gradually lessen its dependence on agriculture while developing its mineral and petroleum reserves.

Yep... seems to fill the right boxes with that big tick!