British Expatriate Network

I am taking a class at local university and the class runs pretty much in Spanish, since it is an upper level class. We have all sorts of literature readings and some of them are considered controversial by some, but we are adults and having different opinions makes the class more interesting.

Now, when you are judged all the time and picked-on for personal views I see that as an unfair treatment and when some comments come from a professor, it makes it very difficult for me to go to class.

Yesterday we talked about the hot issue on illegal immigration in this country; our teacher is from Peru, so I don't known if her or her ancestors came to this country illegally. I believe her opinion was how horrible the whole situation was, and poor illegal being treated like dirt by the Americans, and all this being said with some American students in our class. We had to give our opinion on this issue, in Spanish, so my opinion was that a country has the right to make decisions regarding its laws. I asked a very simple question in a hypothetical way Let's say Peru was a very successful country, would you like to see the number of illegal immigrant that you see living here, in your country, complaining and not paying taxes when all the legal immigrant do pay them? Would you go to a party uninvited? The idea is different but the concept is the same. I said that it is a disrespect to come to a country illegally and it should be a crime, maybe not felony, but nevertheless a crime of some sort.

So, her answer was that if American businesses wouldn’t be giving jobs to illegal immigrants, the problem would not have existed, which is untrue since most people fake documents. However, I do agree with some of her ideas, and there is a number you can call to find out if the social security number is real, but most people don't do that out of laziness and convenience.

My dilemma is I have been feeling very uncomfortable in this class and I think because I "sided with the Americans" on this issue, I have been made sort of the class clown. She makes some rude comments and the whole situation is just getting worse. I have requested a meeting with her and I think I should tell her how I feel, I pay a lot of money to go to college and get educated, and this is not the experience I should be having. I should be enjoying my time there and for sure this is not the case.

In conflict resolution, there are many aspects to a problem and how you deal with it. Some people may see a meeting a good way with dealing with a problem, but others may see it as a personal attack. So my question is How should I approach her without sounding on the defensive or on the attack? I don't want to make her feel uncomfortable and certainly I want her to understand how I feel.

Please feel free to give me ideas; I am going to see her next week!

As a legal immigrant to this country, I don't really see why the US can't control who can and cannot enter their country and why should anyone pay attention to illegal immigrants who protest, yet have no vote or rights beyond basic civil rights?

Mexico bays about preventing its citizens from entering USA, yet closely guards its entire southern border with Guatemala.

If USA really has to go through with this charade, then why not reopen Ellis Island or an equivalent funnel, weed through the pick of the bunch and then send back the undesirables, seeing as how some folks are demanding the same entry system as was used a hundred or more years ago.

This is a very hot button issue in California. I don't know which state you're in but here it is illegal to ask for proof of documentation, unless of course you're the feds or the police. Even with work permits and social security numbers you cannot always verify within a week.
And your teacher has a point. I've been listening to the right wing politicians telling us that the youth of America are just queueing up to go work in the fields picking strawberries and pulling carrots at the rate the farmers can afford to pay them.
The reason we have so many illegal immigrants in this state is because no self respecting citizen would work for the rates offered.
Here in the silicon valley we have basic wages standardised for gov. workers and it's higher than the rest of the country cos it costs so much to live here. We have a problem with first responders cos they can't afford to live in the area they serve.
I too feel confused about my own response, I did the whole process legally but as a human being I see no problem with allowing illegals in to do the work no one else will. When a man can come in and make more money in one day in the fields than he can in a week in Mexico the logic is unbeatable. As long as people breed and have families they will go thru hell to provide for them.

As to how you approach your teacher, I suggest you smile a lot if she grants you a meeting and explain that you don't want to be wrong footed with her and that this is after all America. It is your right, be you legal or illegal to protest, to worship who you want and to pursue happiness. It is however not your right to demand free health care, education or social services. Those that don't put in can't or shouldn't take out. However if you are an illegal who has circumvented the usual manual labor route and gotten a good job you will be paying taxes, like it or not, and having gotten into that position will be law abiding to the nth degree for fear of the main secret of your status coming to light.

On O'Reilly last night, Ann Coulter was in favour of a big wall from California to Texas as well as law enforcement doing house-to-house checks of papers - sounded a bit far-fetched and even O'Reilly baulked at it.

I particularly didn't like the piece I heard from the bill they want to put thru which makes it a crime to aid an illegal.
So it's a normal summer in California and some guy asks for a glass of water and you give him one and suddenly you have committed a felony. roll

Well its Friday night and many of us may have been out on the hiss, so I say punch her lights out lol

Posh, you used the scenario that you wouldn't go to a party uninvited - I want to put it to you another way; if your family were starving and you heard there was a party going on in the next town, the town that has been taking all the money out of your home town, where there would be so much food your family would never have to starve again, would you try and get something to eat for you family? My point being, the US advertises its land is basically full of gold with money for anyone who is prepared to work for it, and at the same time keeping south American countries poor for their own profits - afterall, this is capitalism at its best.

As far as your professor is concerned, you will get your meeting but my advice to you is say you are sorry for any offense you may have caused. Explain that you come from a country where immigration is a huge problem too and it is easy to get the two countries intertwined even though their illegal immigrants are different (in many ways they are not that different but that is another topic and not the point) and leave it at that. don't go into your personal views again. Your class is not a political class and although she asked for a discussion on literature, as a professor her personal issues shouldn't really have come across so strongly. Unfortunately some professors do take certain issues to heart and can't always handle situations where a student disagrees with them. When you come across a professor like that you smile sweetly and apologise :) This was obviously very personal for her. I'm not saying she is right but you are the student. Would you argue with your boss over a point to do with work, if he is adamant he wants it doing his way?

Posh, I've been in your situation with topics in English literature and totally disagreed with points that professors have made. I have also begun to argue with them and then realised that while I knew I was right and they were wrong :grin: I also realised there would be no swaying their beliefs and left it. You can guarantee there would be someone else in your class that agreed with you but would be too afraid to say anything. Don't take it personally, your professor is no different to many other people in this world ( me included in some ways) who either get a thought into their heads, or don't know any better and can't see the bigger picture, or their personal experience drives their beliefs. But respect her position as your professor :)

At the end of the day, if Americans democratically vote not to let them in, there is no case.

Illegals can't vote and have no say in it.

I think a lot of folks get confused between migrant workers and legal immigrants - aren't migrant workers expected to leave after a period of time, like the end of the season or a year or two?

There are several farms/nurseries/grass seed factories that I live near who hire Mexicans and some have bunkhouses for the workers - temporary accommodation for workers expected to be here temporarily?

I don't blame the Minutemen or the right wingers wanting the National Guard to patrol the porous, southern border states. All sorts of immigrants are coming in and who knows if they are going to be a successful, tax paying immigrant, a potential Hispanic gang member or worse.

Posh, I sympathise with your predicament, but I also understand your teacher. Your party analogy isn't quite correct, there are two people in the doorway, one is saying "No, you can only come in with proper documentation, but I will do little to stop you if you come in while my back is turned." The other person is saying, "Come on in. I have a job for you. I will hire you, through an agent, as an independant contractor, that way, I don't have to look at your documents, it is your responsibility.

The illegal is going to come in because the only penalty is to be sent back across the border. That is another part of the mixed messages that the USA is sending.

Even if there were greater penalties, they would still come over. Remember that, back when the penalty for being caught was death, men still stole sheep to feed their starving families. It is very hard to watch children die of hunger or disease for lack of a dollar, especially when one is available across a forbidden border. If you think I am overstating the case, check with the children whose home and restaurant is the garbage dump.

There is an undeclared war going on between the "Elite" on one side, and the rest of us on the other. The "Elite are the top socio/economic class, they are the exploiters. The rest of us are the exploited. NAFTA, CAFTA, and globalisation generally, were tools to outsource work to those who would do it for the least pay and thus force down the pay of everyone else. The illegals are the pawns of the exploiters in this, in jobs that cannot be outsourced. By being illegal they are unable to complain when they are underpaid and otherwise exploited. They are being used to drag down the wages of the legal population. All of that would change if they came in on a formal basis.

They would have access to the law when employers cheated or otherwise mistreated them. We do need them, the whole economy of the USA is based on growth, population growth. Resident families are not producing enough children to handle this need, hence the problem of funding social security etc. The void can only be filled with industrious newcomers.

There are really three categories, documented migrant workers, documented immigrants and undocumented aliens. The undocumented might fall into either of the other two groups if they became legal. The illegals don't go back periodically, because they would then have the problem of an illegal return.

I had some work done by some migrant workers, through a local landscaper. We questioned it when he said his Mexican workers would do the work, He was glad to show us that they were legal and that he treated them well. This was a few years ago and he paid them nearly $12. per hour and tried to provide them with 12 hour workdays. They did so much work in that day that my wife rounded up as much cash as she had in the house and gave it to them as a bonus. They worked the full 12 hours with half an hour for lunch, and they really worked continuously for the whole day, in the hot and humid part of a South East PA summer. They came here each March, and returned home each November/December.

True dat. Neuva Mexico and Arizona are both having major issues with ER's getting shut down due to illegales wanting teh free healthcare.

I live in a hugely Latino area, not just the Meskins. Everyone looks down on the Meskins. Dominicans, Cubans, Guatemalans, they all hate on the Meskins - that kind of surprised me until I found out Northern Mexico is like the Deep South of Latin America, full of hillbilly backwood uneducated rustic types.

/usually gets the gang members in this part of town
//8 blocks north the taxpayers stop

[quote="annie @ Fri Apr 14, 2006 500 pm"][quote="posh2 @ Fri 14 Apr, 2006"]
I too feel confused about my own response, I did the whole process legally but as a human being I see no problem with allowing illegals in to do the work no one else will. When a man can come in and make more money in one day in the fields than he can in a week in Mexico the logic is unbeatable. As long as people breed and have families they will go thru hell to provide for them.

Hi Annie,

As long as people are in "favor" of illegal immigration, this problem will continue. As long as people are in favor, the immigrants will be underpaid and treated like criminals even if it is the work that no one else will do. I have children in school, and there is a huge problem with class size at the moment (I live in Northern Virginia) and why should my child's education suffer? There are far more social problems which I could go on and on, but my point is that supporting illegal immigrantion is not the right choice( this is my opinion and I am not saying that you support illegal immigration). It only marginalizes the Latino community even further. I rather see a guest worker program or something similar, human exploitation should not be allowed. And as for the teacher I guess I will need to smile a whole lot more until the end of this semester! wink

(Quote from londonsquare) Even if there were greater penalties, they would still come over. Remember that, back when the penalty for being caught was death, men still stole sheep to feed their starving families. It is very hard to watch children die of hunger or disease for lack of a dollar, especially when one is available across a forbidden border. If you think I am overstating the case, check with the children whose home and restaurant is the garbage dump.


I have experience working with very poor families. I understand what is like to have nothing eat and a place to call home. As a teenager, I went throughout slums and favelas in Rio de Janeiro doing charity work for various families. I was involved in a project for more than 2 years, teaching children to read and write Portuguese (my mum is Brazilian). Others were involved building better homes and teaching a trade. I can say with certainty that most people don't like hand me downs for too long. The poor truly wants to be able to provide for themselves, this gives a person a sense of pride.

Knowing a little bit about how the Latin culture works, I can say that Mexico's corrupt politicians are to blame for some(if not all)of this problem .Corruption is widely practiced from top to bottom and vice-versa. Vicente Fox is not doing anything to help his countryman/women financially. The more ignorant a president can keep a nation, the better it will be for a very few. You cannot blame the United States alone on this issue. If Mexico was a country in which its citizens had access to education, more social equality and real democracy, few people would cross the border.

This problem has many dimensions and to end corruption is almost impossible. Try it and you might get your family killed. In Brazil, for example, around election time the politicians go around the countryside and they "buy" people's votes. They give a family food for a month, in turn, the family promises to vote on a particular candidate. How do you end something like this? As I said before, only through education and an end to corruption will Mexico and other Latin American countries beat the hunger and poverty.

Anyway, thanks for giving me a different prospect on how to handle my teacher. I really appreciate your input on this situation wink [/quote]

I totally agree with you, a country should be able to make decision on how to secure or not its borders. And to support illegal immigration is just plain wrong in my opinion, and as I said before, it only marginalizes the Mexicans and Latinos even further.

Ben, many thanks for your advice, seriously! I shall do exactly as you mention, apologize for my mistake. I shall keep my big mouth shut and avoid any confrontation in future. Her class runs on personal opinions on Spanish and Latin American literature, so some of the readings were about the role women in society( apparently it all your fault for being a man :roll: ), Immigration, you will find all sorts of social and political issues in Latin America literature.

I have taken a class on Latin American Study and it wasn't like this one at all, generally the professor taught the class and rarely asked for people's opinion.

Anyway, thanks a bunch! :wink: