British Expatriate Network

First I would like to say to Doubledix...I like your way of thinking. I agree with everything you said to Rob S.

There are two issues here. Protecting the innocent and the man's punishment . It is the first the judge's duty to protect the innocent. You cannot get more innocent than a child. I agree the man should be punished, but his punishment is the least of our concern. The concern here should be protecting the innocent. Trying to get reform for someone there is no reform for is like spitting into the wind during a hurricane. It is only hurting the one doing it and the others around him. It is a waste of time, money, and the potential that he will do it again is too great a risk! As for his punishment it should be to the fullest extent of the law. If he isn't what kind of message is it sending to the potential pedifiles out there? I'll tell you, they can do it and only get 60 days in jail. Wow what a punishment! Drug dealers get longer than that and there is reform for them. The difference is they supplying drugs to people who asked for them. Did the little girl ask for this? No! Her rights were very much infringed upon. He should be put away for life. He ruined the little girls life. Should his life be ruined because he repeatedly raped a little girl for four years? That was her sentence for being innocent. What should his sentence be for being a monster? Reform when there is none?

Rob S the thought that you think you can reform a pedifile sadens me. Although if you really believe that why don't you offer to take this guy into your home and help with his reform. Think about it Rob would you really be willing to risk your children for his reform? Hey how about just letting him move in next door to you and lend him a helping hand. How do you think your life would be? Really!? Do you think you would let your 9 year old daughter play in the back yard by herself? I don't think you neighbors would appreciate having a pedifile next to them knowing the potential dangers for their children.

The man should be in Jail! Forget about his reform! What about the little girls reform? Is the goverment offering her reform for her life? I bet not! Is the goverment offering to pay for her counseling? Do you think she will ever fully recover? I don't. Why would anyone want to take the gamble with another child's life being ruined by such a sick sadistic &*%!#!%? You talk about the money it costs to keep him in prison? How much of the tax payers money would you be willing spend to keep this from happening to another child? Remember the next life he ruins could be your child's. Just how much is a life worth to you? I don't know about you but I believe my child's or any other child's life is worth way more than what it will cost to keep him incausserated.

As for the judge... I don't care that it isn't an isolated case. He has the power to keep the man from ever offending again. He didn't use it and needs to be off the bench! Kind of makes you wonder if he has rapist or pedifile tendencies himself.

jojoyou, I'd be interested to know what expertise you have in this field, especially given your blanket belief that sex offenders can't be treated. I know several psychologists, psychiatrists and others working in the field who say otherwise adn can point to examples.

Treatment is isn't about sympathy or empathy - it is a cold hearted and objective exercise in dealing with a problem. and for those of you who favor genital mutilation and indefinite incarceration, perhaps you'd like to remember that a significant proportion of abusers were themselves abused. That said, and I say this based of direct experience, some serious sexual predators have amazing capacities for denial and justification.

Mr. snuggles, just to clear up a little confusion - I don't live or practice in VT, in fact i don't think I've even been their. I'm based in NH, however criminals don't respect borders and so you end up being familiar with what goes on in neighboring States. That said, I'm aware of the biological justification for castration. Evidence suggests it doesn't work. The issue is behavioral - hence the justification and denial. Also many sexual offenses are about violence, domination and control rather than simple gratification. What I say here isn't about my opinion - it is about looking at emperical evidence from those who know what they are talking about and finding an objective solution.

What some propose is just vindictive and betrays an element of sexual sadism that is more akin to the behavior of those they seek to punish.

Double dix - sorry if I'm insulting laymen - I tend to come off like that - but in my defense, how many sex offenders and victims of sexual offenses did you speak with last week? I deal with criminal law and domestic relations cases (including domestic violence) - I'm in no way an expert, but I think that I can write with some sort of knowledge.

Goose, I'm not arguing against myself - but perhaps I'm not being clear either. Basically, simply locking people up, either for a fix period or indefinitely is a total waste of public money - the reoffending rates are hideous. However, using incarceration alongside some for of rehabilitation or the continuing threat of incarceration has been shown to be effective.

In England the guy in this case could well have been jailed and then transferred to somewhere like HMP Wakefield where they have a sex offender program. Participation is voluntary (I believe) but failure to participate will prevent early release or parole. In England many serious sex offenders are sentence to life and ultimately may be released on licence - if they don't complete the program and are not assessed by the psycologists as suitable for release - then they have nil chance of release.

In VT such an option is not available. Hence the judge had two options - incarceration with no rehabilitation and no means to force compliance with any program or a suspended sentence with a contingency requiring completion of a treatment program. In my professional opinion the Judge made the right call. If the judge had been so sure he wouldn't reoffend - he'd have put him in Jail and let him be realeased back into the community, incognito, in a few years. The Judge seems to have been of the view the guy was a risk and sentence accordingly.

I haven't read through everyone's comments but I do have a couple of questions.

It is a known fact that those who have been abused are more likely to go on and be an abuser themselves. One of my questions is what about those who have never abused? What are the cases of people who have never been abused who become abusers and show no abnormality regarding mental incapacity? It must happen because abuse has to start somewhere. Or are these cases generally a result of an adult being hooked on drugs or drink?

Also, you mention Rob about the abuser being abused at one time themselves and this is where I have a problem. When does the child become an adult and when does an adult stay a child and it is accepted? I know there are things that have happened in my life during my childhood that will affect me for the rest of my life. I see things in my mother than I know she does because of things that happened in her childhood (
same with my dad) and while it isn't an excuse it is a reason. We know in children that if this reason is addressed the course of that child can be changed but can the same be said for adults and should we consider this? Does it come down to a matter of caring and seeing the bigger picture. I can see where you are coming from, Rob, and to a certain extent I do tend to agree. But I haven't had a child who has been abused so I don't know if I would feel different if that were the case. I also know there are many people in this world that don't give a toss about a persons background and only look at what is in front of them. Do they have it right? There are times in this world where what is in front of you is all that matters. But if that was the case wouldn't capital punishment still be in schools?

I see the US criminal system as harsh and the UK system as too soft. Yet both haven't stopped criminal behavior. Is there really a middle ground or not? Is there a criminal system in this world that works? I know of a few people who have committed criminal acts and have had to live with their mistakes for the rest of their lives. But they have all been given a second chance and taken it to become successful adults and good parents. Their experience has proven to be a benefit with regards to talking and understand their own children. But their crimes weren't what I would consider severe.

Ben,
I seem to recall that you have studied psychology/couselling, so you may have a better idea than I.
Essentially there is no one cause of someone becoming a sex offender or sexually abusive. Also two people can have identical experiences adn totally different responses to those experiences. As a result their can be no one solution and thus no one size fits all punishment. The problem is that the public and popular media tend to prefer simple 'solutions' to these complex issues.

At law a child becomes an adult at 18. However in many states children can be charged and tried as adults. This is a policital device and bears little relation to anything rational.

As a practical point, people grow and mature at different rates and some 18 year olds are more mature than people twice their age. However there are cases of children commiting sex offenses on other children and these need to be addressed, although in my opinion, not within the criminal justice system.