British Expatriate Network

http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4592890.stm

Alarming statistics strongly suggest that current technology is being used to terminate pregnancies based on the sex of the baby. Not really startling news, but what to do about it?

When we were expecting our first in Birmingham UK in 1997, we were told we would not be told the sex because of the risk of termination due to it being the wrong sex. However, the technician told us without batting an eyelid. Non-white friends were not told. ???

Of course, we didn't need to know, but why shouldn't we, seeing as the medics know and record it? And yet..... should they tell people whose cultural background might lead them to abort female foetuses? And if they shouldn't how to make the judgement? Do you issue a pre-scan questionnaire asking "Does your culture lead you to have a preference for a baby of a certain sex?" And if they ban NHS hospitals from telling parents-to-be the sex of their unborn, how on earth would they legislate the private practice?

Or am I being culturally intolerant in thinking it's unacceptable to terminate pregnancies on the basis of sex alone?

Is there any workable solution?

Monster there are alot of cultures that will terminate a baby cuz it's a female. To them its down to cost.They see males as bread winners and females costing them due to the fact they have to pay a dowary.

Make it right, Nope but you can understand it in poorer countries. the fact this does not change when they are of some wealth or not at that point of starving makes it more wrong.

But the whole thing about culture is a strange thing. We look at things as wrong, but it makes sence from their point of view. Just look at what people from europe done to indians when they came to the US. The Indians most probably looked at us strange as well.

But statistics also show that no matter what you try to do with the sexual make-up of a society, the world still balances out the sexes making the male to female ratio almost equal. War is a prime example - whenever there has been a war, more baby boys are born.

And then there is the situation in China where couples were no longer told the sex of their babies because they were terminating the girls. So instead, they gave birth to the girls and dumped them in the streets.

I don't deny it's sensible economics in some places. Doesn't make it any more acceptable, though. But should we, could we be doing more to change that? Or is that crossing the boundries of racism?

And will it really all balance out in the end, or is it the "thin end of the wedge"? Maybe nature can cope with the occassional war, but this appears to be ongoing and increasing and in the case of war, humans only interfere with the post-natal deaths. How can "nature" hope to compete when mankind is meddling prenatally? (if you believe that there is a significant increase of male births during war time)

It will balance out in the end. The worth of the women their fathers sell will be more. One has to look at the culture that allows men to think they can buy and sell their women and children.
In many countries rape is a part of war, I'm not sure what the belief is there.
I believe you shouldn't tell anybody what the sex is, just whether or not the baby is healthy.
I also think another look should be taken at the private clinics in London who are still openly condeming female genital castration but still doing it for the right price.
It's unfortunate but many men see women as mothers, daughters, wives or whores. Not people.
Who do we blame, society or their parents.


I like the gig they instituted here in Cali, if you're a mother who doesn't want the baby you just drop it off in a designated area at a hospital. No questions asked. Saves the baby, leaves the mother with years of therapy, but saves lives.

I think if you look at the fertility stats for European women you'll find they've stopped breeding. not because of career or choice but simple because they can no longer conceive. Just as the male sperm count has hit an all time low in Uk and diets and drugs are being prescribed to men who want to be fathers.

Having a baby is no longer an easy three minute fumble. It takes loads of money and often a lot of doc appointments.

The end of days is upon us, why breed :wink:

I don't think a policy that tries to discourage gendercide is necessarily racist. I don't think you're being culturally intolerant.

I was not allowed to know the sex of my baby either but could easily have had a private scan, they really don't cost that much. And as abortion is available to women in the UK the practice will go on.

It's rather silly if you think about it because people from other cultures in the UK can have girls that grow up, make their own living and there is no need for a dowry.

I believe in China it is merely considered unlucky to have a family without a boy in. But the Chinese put a lot of stock in their luck.

I thought it had more to do with only one child being "allowed", and it being a son's responsibility to look after his parents -daughters look after their husband's parents (by tradition)?

I don't think I would call it 'sensible economics' so much as the lesser of two evils. I don't agree with abortions but if you go by how some of american law is set up - a baby is a human being once it takes its first breath. As already mentioned, in the UK abortions are legal as long as your reason is reasonable. By just looking at our own society, is it right of a mother to abort a baby just because she had sex and fell pregnant and states that by having this child it will affect her mental stability? Should a mother abort a child just because there is a slight chance that the baby will be born with club feet or a haired lip? We may not all agree with the reasons given for a person having an abortion but the consensus seems to be on this board that a woman still has the right to choose. Therefore, if a woman lives in a country where she will be beaten for having girls, or lives among people who respect boys and not girls, or lives with a religion that treats females as second class citizens, then this woman may believe that giving birth to a girl would be detrimental to her health or well-being, or see that by having a girl would actually be worse for the child just as an american woman would feel having a baby born with a defect because the society she lives in expects perfection.

I'm not saying there is a 'significant' increase in males births during war time - what I am saying is statistics do show that when there has been a war, which has generally meant a large loss of male lives for a community or society, an increase in male births following the war has been shown and that the percentages of male to female soon balance out again.

Annie, the point you are making about FGM was interesting but I think you may not understand the point. FGM happens for religious reasons just like male circumcision. If clean clinics and qualified doctors don't perform the surgery, it doesn't mean the surgery won't happen, it will just happen somewhere else to the detriment of the girl. And although there are many people totally against FGM and it is illegal both here and in Europe, I personally don't see how this is any different to male circumcision which is still allowed and legal. Although one is more straight forward than another, it still hurts the child, affects their sensitivity, takes away a part of the body for no other reason than just because, and carries a risk of serious damage. If FGM is completed by a qualified doctor who knows what they are doing, they can give the girl a good life rather than a life of constant pain. Culture and your own society has a big influence on your whole life, for the rest of your life. For a girl to be brought up in a society that insists on such an act being performed, she would be very reluctant to go against what is expected of her. Those that don't go ahead with this procedure are often left ostracised by both her community and her own family. For the girl this is worse than going through the barbaric procedure of FGM. Education is the only way to help these women and slowly but surely education is working because societies who practised FGM for centuries, some are slowly stopping the practise and the women are giving their daughters the choice to not have female circumcision done.

women have been treated as second class citizens throughout the world and our own society isn't any different. We may have become more 'civilized' but our history shows us we weren't always this way. Just because we have seen the error of our ways doesn't mean we have the right to go into another country and tell them they are wrong. That would be, to them, no different to the British Empire coming back and telling them that their society is wrong and ours is right. It took a long time for our own society to realise that women do actually count in this world, even though things still aren't equal. I don't know what the answer is, but it has to include education.

You may be right. I got my information by reading the novel Wild Swans. :grin:

http//www.angelfire.com/co/hellfiredb/abort.reasons.html

I think I'm just repeating what has already been said, but are the "western' reasons for abortion, like thinking you can't afford it, already got enough and not wanting anyone to know you've been shagging around, better than other cultures reasons for abortion. I think not, so if the technology is there its absolutely no suprise that its been used to benefit people in the way that they see fit.

There are a lot of things other societies do that seems to be not what would be acceptable in ours , we also do things that indians dont do for religious reasons ( eating cows ) the chinese also eat cats which would not be ecceptable behavour here .

I think some of the responses here demonstrate the "head-in-the-sand" position very nicely. "I don't like it but I don't know what to do about it so let's pretend it's none of my business no matter how bad it is and lets not talk about it so no-one will think badly of me for feeling that way". Anyone else notice the difference in responses between male and female posters? I wonder if people would have cared any more if it was the male birthrate that was down?

/flame on roll

I'd like to see it go the other way. 10 birds to every bloke. I think we'd see peace in the Middle East. Why blow yourself up for 5 heavenly virgins when you have more than that at home? (All made from one small aubergine...)

Seriously though, I'm of several minds about this. First off, lacking a uterus, I feel my opinion on all things abortion related carry less validity than those with one. As it stands, I'm completely behind the credo of it's your body do what you want with it.

So when doubledix points out that you can get an abortion in most civilized western countries for any reason, I see no problem with that. I completely agree with his point about the western standards on abortion. If every sperm is not sacred, and every fetus is fair game, why make a fuss that more of the ones with XX chromosomes are getting aborted? It's not like actual life is being taken.

My first problem with this issue is that I can't really believe that all of these women are making these choices for themselves. Maybe they are, but it seems reasonable to assume that coercion is probably involved in at least some cases. If it’s your body and you can’t decide what to do with it because somebody else is forcing you to cut out or sustain a piece of it, then that’s wrong.

My second problem is due to the fact that this further lowers the standard of living for women in areas where it’s prevalent. That seemed counter intuitive to me at first. I mean if women are a commodity and you lower the amount available, surely the value must rise. I thought as a scarce resource being competed for women might be able to exert some control over their lives. What seems to be happening instead is that women from poorer regions are being imported as brides. And since they have no family or social ties in the area many of them are treated no better than slaves. Added to that, I read an article a couple of months ago that suggested that kidnapping a bride was coming back in vogue...

its not a matter of * head in the sand * you are talking about the culture of a soveriegh country . much as we might dislike it they are free to adopt any policy tHAT theyTHE CITIZENS choice to adopt .
This is not a represive dictatorship they are a republic older and in some ways superior to ours they have opinions and livestyle that are differnt to ours arrived at because of that countires perticular needsand religious mantra . '
What rules do we use to put the world right after we have pput our own house in order ???

Do you complain about America * policing the world * ?/ cant have it both ways cus its something you take a exception to personally you want it changed .

There are folks who wanted the regime changed in irag becuase what they considered * oppression / of rights of some of the citizens . surely you where in the position of the many who said * that america should * mind its own bisiness *

There are countiries that think differantly to us about marriage ., homosexuallity . abortion ,womens votes ,killing of cows for food etc should we if they protest changed\ out laws to suit THERE culture norms ??