British Expatriate Network

I have my doubts about the good design of the buildings LS.

For one thing they did not follow the more stringent rules of the NYCity codes in many things,but used the Port Authority's own less stringent building code.

In the '40-,s the Empire State Building was hit by a bomber and suffered vey little damage.

I do not believe explosives blew them up.

But, for all those buildings to collapse as they did was in my opinion poor design and some of the reports coming out seem to say the same thing.

I understand that NYCity buiding codes have now been revised to improve the situation should this happen again,but the upgradesin the codes are facing a lot of flack from the developers.

This is another great site. Hunt the boeing, keep in mind planes are made of alot of titanium which melts at 1600* F, jet fuel gets to only 1000* F so there should be a part of the plane, someone please find it. A boeings turbine is over 9 ft. round, why was the only turbine found at the site,3ft.round? Please find the boeing someone.

http//www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

Jet fuel burns at 875*F- the steel in the WTC melts at 2800*F something doesn't add up here.
http//www.christian-patriots.us/TwinTowers.html

The 875*F is correct for jet fuel temp., I looked it up and forgot to change it on the 1000*F.

That last one is a good site.

Not suggesting to make them plane proof, but just make them better.
Anyone use the outerbridge on a day to day basis?
As you drive over it, take a quick look over it, you will bolts missing from supports, temporary fixes that have been there for the last two and a half years, why should I believe the same short cuts are not taken with other structures?

Both the "oblongation" and the Fox reporter's contention are dealt with very handily here IMO. Indeed the reporter quickly retracted his claim simply because he wasn't near the WTC at all.

http//www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Also, if anyone saw the travelling 9/11 Fresh Kills museum exhibit it leaves very little doubt that commercial planes were used and not grey military aircraft.

Until you see the movie with the eyewitnesses and look closely at the planes, they are not bright and silvery that is for sure.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/...page=2&c=y
If you cannot see something that shouldn't be there like a tube or oblongation or pod however you want to word it- it is a three dimensional object no denying it. If it is a shadow a shadow of what? It should not be there at all. Nothing absolutely nothing should be on the bottom of those planes they are smooth. A blind man with some sense can see that something is there.

In case you didn't notice Popular Mechanics is not that popular and they put together a lose knit story to sell magazines thats all.

You can take every drop of jet fuel from one of those planes put it all on one floor and ignite it, let it burn and the steel would not even turn red much less melt. I've heard that the bolts gave way and caused the pancake effect. Jet fuel is basically Kerosene, why do they make Kerosene heaters out of second grade sheetmetal that has never melted with a heater turned all the way up but hardened steel melts in less than two hours. Oh yeah they had fire retadant sprayed on the steel as well.

Steel doesn't have to melt just weaken.

As a regular 'Coast To Coast AM' listener Ive had to listen to more than my fair share of conspiracy theories wink
Art Bell had one of the main contributors of the Popular Mechanics article on his show who made some good arguments against some of the 9/11 conspiracy theories.
http//www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2005/03/05.html

There was an interesting C2C where there was a discussion about 9/11 with Alex Jones, David Ray Griffin, Peter Lance, Michael Levine and Morgan Reynolds. Of all the conspiracy theorists out there Alex Jones has to be the most outspoken and controversial. Jones contends that 9/11 was an 'inside job' which was orchestrated by the US 'black ops' community. Incidentally, he also claims that the London underground bombings had all the same hallmarks as 9/11.
http//www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2005/06/16.html

Personally, I think that Alex Jones has his own agenda and I just think that he lacks credibility and that he may find some strange evidence but he uses this for his own twisted theories. I just find it hard to believe that the whole 9/11 thing was perpertrated by the US intelligence community. I personally think that there was a mixture of criminal negligence with mistakes and mixed with a sense of arrogance and invincibilty. I don't think that the US government was in on it either but I do think that they did exploit the whole 9/11 fallout for their own political agenda.

I do think that there is evidence out there which is definitely food for thought, and as bad as the intelligence community has been there has been some some very dodgy dealings done in the past and I wouldnt be so quick and flippant to just dismiss 9/11 conspiracies and a lot of conspiracy theories for that.

once again people just talk about jet fuel the jet, but not taking into account all the other material. having seen planes that burn't they put out loads of balck smoke. As someone has already said steel does not have to melt to weaken. Thats why we get different strenghs of metal, by heat and rapided cooling. Do one or other to much, to long and you start again. But think about this.

You would have to have sooooooooooooo many people involved in getting this done that it would be impossible for someone not to see something or leak it.. As for these films. I would not trust it unless I knew the source and that it had not been tampared with.

You can also say was the first WTC attack a setup as well then???

There were 3 buildings? I thought it was called the Twin Towers?

I could see the weakening of steel being legitimate but WTC 2 collapsed after 56 minutes. Fifty six minutes. Go to any old footage and look at the towers they were smoldering there was not a high temperature fire,the initial impact was great but most the fuel was exploded then and debris in the building was burning,this is not hot enough to weaken steel. Please see the following,
http//www.iklimnet.com/hotelfires/meridienplaza.html
1 Meridian Plaza burned for 19 hours was a twelve alarm fire that cost three fire fighters life, was engulfed in flames and there was no weakening of the steel there, and I am expected to believe after 56 minutes steel was weakened in a structure built to higher standards than 1 Meridian?
It really doesn't take alot of covering up to do,FAA was the only real problem but NORAD over rides FAA and FAA does what NORAD tells them. The media were the master manipulators in this one.
You don't have to buy any movie just rent CNN presents 911 remebered and slow it down, You'll see the flash before impact (what that was I don't know) the tube under the plane, the color of the planes, the boeing completely missing at the pentagon how much does it take to realize something don't add up. I asked someone please find me a boeing from ANY site any photo of a boeing at the pentagon. It exploded, OK Titanium that ultra light weight ultra strong metal that is heavily used on the construction of airplanes for strength and their weight melts at 1660, jet fuel burns at 875, show me a boeing scientifically it is impossible for the whole thing to of disappeared. If you look real closely at the pentagon after it collapsed there is a book laying on a podium UNSINGED, a computer on a desk not even melted so don't even try to tell me that the plane melted.
I don't think everything is a conspiracy, sometimes things just happen (london bombings a very old unkept for dike in N. Orleans).The things that don't add up with 9-11 are not conspiracy theory they are legitimate evidence of a lie, the conspiracy part of it is who did it and why, and for that I don't know.

Meridian plaza was a different configuration to the twin towers, it is useless to compare the two. Meridian was an older style design with more redundancy than the twin towers. Meridian was taken down because the steel in the gutted floors was twisted and bent. There was some consideration given to taking it down to below the fire damage and then rebuilding, but I think there were not enough potential tenants.

I repeat, the two cases are of very different structural systems.

NO they were both steel structures no different. There may of been different codes but as you admit Meridian was older therefore you would have to conclude that the standards for WTC were greater based on 1. they youth of the building that building was young by building standards. 2. Meridian Plaza was Meridian plaza, WTC was a "landmark" constructed to high standards.

And as you pointed out it still didn't collapse,just as no steel structured building has ever collapsed due to fire. Never ever has a steel building collapsed and WTC 2 collapses after 56 minutes and Meridian Plaza burns a huge fire much greater than WTC for 19 hours thats almost a whole day and it bends the steel but is still standing.


I'm still waiting for someone to find me a boeing in or out of the pentagon. There are hundreds of photos and hours of news footage. I've seen that picture of machined metal about four foot long and three inches wide, would that stand up in court as being evidence of a completely missing plane? No. Find me a wheel a tail a wing a fuelsage even a few luggages would be worth looking at.
Please find me a boeing so I can rest and quit putting the word out of a criminal injustice that those of you who argue about justify.I do enjoy difference in opinions by all means it helps me grow.

Mr S, when it comes to structural engineering, you pontificate from a posture of ignorance. You draw unjustified conclusions from insufficient information and knowledge.

You, elephants, giraffes and spiders are all made from the same materials.
The limbs of the first three have bones inside the muscles and sinew; the spider has pipe like bones outside the muscle and sinew. Same materials, different system.

The Sidney Opera House is made from a form of reinforced concrete, so is the dome over the reactor building of a nuclear power plant, but they function in different ways.

To belabour the point, compare the Sidney Harbour Bridge with the San Francisco Bay Bridge
http//www.photoatlas.com/pics01/pictures_of_australia_11.html
http//images.micron.com/images/education/bridges/baybridge4.jpg
Both are made of steel but in different structural systems.

Mr. S, I am a retired Professional Structural Engineer with over fifty years in the business, and experience in most types of fixed structure that you can find. In that respect, I speak from a posture of knowledge.