British Expatriate Network

http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_midlands/4296412.stm

At last, something is being done to help these women, but will it really make a difference? Will they keep on raiding the brothels until they're all gone? Or was this a token gesture? And what will replace it? Something worse? They'll always be demand -or at least in the forseeable future. Birmingham was packed with established brothels when I lived there, they're so settled/accepted almost it's going to be hard to sweep them out.

Is legalised, regulated prostitution the answer? Or will there always be the demand for the illegal -whatever that is at the time? Is that part of the thrill -the dirt, the guilt, the risk....?

I tend to feel that if people want to get paid for sex then that's their business, but it looks pretty clear that these women were not willing participants, and where would you draw the line between volunteers and "slaves"? How many women (and men) turn to prostitution because they see no other way of getting out of the poverty trap? Are they really doing it voluntarily? Perhaps you could define it by whether they get to keep all of the money they make or whether a percentage goes to someone else. But that would be virtually impossible to track and prove.


It all questions and no answers for me. Clearly something needs to be done, but what? What is the ideal we're aiming for? What can we hope for realistically?

another question... is it possible to change the demands of society? Could we remove these brothels by taking away the need for them? Could society be manipulated into wanting clean regulated and licensed brothels instead of a quick jump in the parking lot, for example?

Very grey area this one, are the women being forced into this kind of work by pimps and madames, or is it at their own will? This line of work, is also 2 tier, the cheesy ones, and the classy ones with middle aged women, wanting to maintain a certain lifestyle.

Anyhoo....I don't know why the govt has not adapted the German or Austrian way of handling this, bey legalizing this line of work. Make them pay tax, get random checkups, and provide some kind of security for them.

If anyone has been to these countries, you will see that everything is well organized, as soon as it's 6pm, they start coming out and lining the street, with their customers picking them up in their Audis, Mercedes et al

Well that may be the face of it you see, but isn't it true that the regular unstandardised prostitution is still alive and kicking in the poor areas where the urge is there but the currency to support the legislation isn't? I've heard that there are areas of Bonn -for example- that would rival Balsall Heath. Can't say I've any first hand experience of living in Bonn though, unlike Balsall Heath.

I personally see nothing illegal in 2 consenting adults meeting in a room to engage in sex for money. I find the 'stings' that police use to find and arrest the people involved in these activities to be a complete waste of money.

Now, forced prostitution is another issue.. so is prostitution being conducted on the streets in residential areas.

One of the problem we have in our society is that the number of really bad crimes continue to climb. We should legalize prostitution and soft drugs and divert the police resources and courts to dealing with violent crimes. I do not care if 2 consenting people engage in sex for money or someone smokes pot, but I do care when people are attacked or their homes broken into.

Obviously, in an ideal world, we would have the police resources to deal with all crimes..

If you criminilize anything, drugs, the sex industry etc, then the market doesn't go away, it is just left to unscrupulous individuals to run the market in any way they want to.

The thing that annoys me is that in the case of the illegal immigrant girls they are obviously not doing this out of choice. They keep them drugged up and locked in. They're obviously not paid either. These places must stick out like sore thumbs in British cities but the authorities are not closing them all down as soon as they find out about them. Why not?

I believe it should be made into a legal industry. I'm sure that some people resort to it because of poverty as they always have done. However, McDonalds is always hiring.

Some resort to it because of a drug habit. And there's another thing that no country seems to be able to get a handle on.

I ve never understood why prostitution shopuld be a crime .
Now slavery or forced perticipation in prostitution thats a differant story .

The* ranch * in navada is legal and the women are clean and willing participants .

problem with illegal prostitution is like the prohibition of alcohol organized crime will provide the service for those that have a need , as history tells us if there is a NEED somebody will come forward to supply it , same with drugs. same with abortion, when it was illegal back street abortionist appeared out of nowhere .

The laws outlawing prostitution came from the * puritan * thinking of early law makers . prostitution when both perties are willing participants is a victim less crime .

Morals should not be a concern of any govt .

Why not? I actually think they should, but I'm open to being enlightened. :grin:

A different question.. Do you think that President Bush should have a free hand to determine the morals we all live by?

It's amazing, some days the boards are as dull as dishwater and others, like today are interesting across the board.

JohnA, even the girls at the ranch might have a pimp outside with a chiv in his pocket.

I'm with John on the legislating morality kick but that doesn't mean avoiding legislation that requires moral behaviour. One immediate problem with morality is that each of us will have a different take on it.

I believe that secular law should govern the limits where the rights of people would conflict. There will be considerable overlap with systems of morality but that is accidental. In this context, if a woman wants to sell kisses to sailors it should be ok unless someone is coercing her.

During WW2, the army doctors got involved with some brothels in Malta and tested the ladies regularly and looked after their health and welfare. There was a low incidence of venereal disease, then Lady Astor heard about it, made a big fuss in parliament and the doctors had to stop. The incidence of venereal disease went sky high.

The reason that the mafia became so strong here was prohibition, everyone who had anything to do with booze was a criminal, but people were going to booze anyway. If drugs and prostitution were in the open, they could be controlled.

There seems to be a concensus among us that consenting prostitution should not be criminal but that forced should be. Or at least that prostitution shouldn't be criminal but forcing someone into it should. That seems like such a simple line to draw, but it's very hard to define the line at which forcing someone starts and subsequently to prove that someone has stepped over that line. Or isn't it?

As the women were illegally brought into the country, had their documentation removed and were theatened I think they shouldn't be deported or prosecuted.
I think the way to treat this is to treat it as human trafficking. The sex is secondary.
As to legalising prostitution, I doubt that will happen in the old country, they've tried before and it hasn't worked.
What needs to happen is that this weird presumption by some men that women are second class citizens and therefore up for sale or barter. It goes back to the beginning of civilisation. men buy brides, father's sell brides. Women have always been bought and sold. I reckon mothers need to knock the idea out of their sons heads. How i don't know.
Look at the world, sons signing up for suicide bombing, women, forced prostitution or now bombing. Seems nuts to me.

As an individual - no. Does he actually have the power as President to determine anything by himself? (Please excuse my ignorance on this point - i'm not quite into US politics and how they work just yet.) If he does, doesn't that make him a dictator rather than President, and wouldn't that be anarchy rather than democracy?

(I think I've said what I mean here - language differences are causing problems.. although "fully" bilingual for everyday purposes, the intricacies of expression in a discussion such as this are sometimes difficult.)

Not really, you start asking of a prostitute's house husband, is he just a house husband or is he a pimp. There was a prostitute wrote a book, or perhaps was interviewed by one of the Sundays, who said "I was a secretary until I realised I was sitting on a fortune." Is offering large sums of money coersion?

We are losing sight here of the fact that this Birminghan thing was less of pimpery than of slavery. They are illegal immigrants and are often sent back to their country of origin by the authorities, only to be forced back again. Apparently there is a treaty that Britain hasn't signed, that lays down some ways to help these women.

So what kind of morality would you feel comfortable with being enforced by the Government Du Jour? How would you feel with old-school mormon every man must have 7 wives laws?