SAN FRANCISCO - A federal judge declared the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools unconstitutional Wednesday, a decision that could put the divisive issue on track for another round of Supreme Court arguments.
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The case was brought by the same atheist whose previous battle against the words "under God" was rejected last year by the Supreme Court on procedural grounds.
U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God."
Karlton said he was bound by precedent of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which in 2002 ruled in favor of Sacramento atheist Michael Newdow that the pledge is unconstitutional when recited in public schools
Glad to hear it , its about time we went back to the staus quo before eisenhower interfered with the pledge and inserted the words *under god * into it .
no reason to think the country was more *godly and morally sound * then than it is today .
those that choose to be *under god * can.
Just leave the rest of us the f**k alone
I'm glad he wasn't so easily dissuaded - a good example of a true, patriotic American exercising his rights.
I've made my feelings on the pledge known before, even without the "Gott Mit Uns" reference that Eisenhower added relatively recently. My resident little one would have started school this week but we decided for various reasons to homeschool her - I'm glad that at least she is spared the jingoistic brain-washing.
We should change it back to "One Nation". There's no way the Pledge is ever going to be dropped, but at least drop the state-endorsed religion.
We should change it back to "One Nation". There's no way the Pledge is ever going to be dropped, but at least drop the state-endorsed religion.
I dont think the intent of patriots like him are wanting the pledge dropped just the god B/S .
what if eisenhoweror any president had put in *under the big yellow unicorn * cus thats what he believed in would the JEAAZES crowd be happy then ??????
I have no problem with the Pledge, it can be considered brainwashing, but it also reminds you of the ideals this country was founded on. which is a Good Thing.
I have no problem with the Pledge, it can be considered brainwashing, but it also reminds you of the ideals this country was founded on. which is a Good Thing.
Which is fine, except for the God bollox!
The pledge should not be allowed in school, period! As I understand it, anyone who is NOT American is actually breaking the law by saying the pledge because by saying the pledge they are, in essence, saying they are American when they are not!
Our schools don't even have the pledge at school gatherings anymore.
I have no problem with the Pledge, it can be considered brainwashing, but it also reminds you of the ideals this country was founded on. which is a Good Thing.
I have often thought about the question of the pledge, when does indoctrination become brain washing.
Again its all a fine line
I went to a run of the mill state secondary school, after a run of the mill state primary school ('70s - '80s England). We had 'assembly' every day. We had to sing one hymn, and say the lord's prayer, every day. Up until it was time to choose O levels, we had a religion class every week. Didn't do me any harm - I'm not religious, nor is anyone in my family. I find it odd that anyone gets so upset about this pledge thing, considering all the religious crap that was shoved down my (and I presume a good portion of the rest of you) throat - or did I go to the only British schools like this? Is Burton Upon Trent (or maybe Staffordshire) the only area of Britain where this occured? Did it turn any of you into walking Religio-Zombies that required intervention from the PC Patrol to rescue you? Just curious.
Are you a walking religious zombie lol (just a joke)
So question is what is brain washing. Maybe its everything thats bad as we see it is brain washing, what we see as ok is that.
Makes me laugh with all these people writing books on team works etc, what makes the authors opinion any more valid than anyone els'e. After all its not like math where 2+2=4 and has an answer.
AHHHHH what a world lol
I went to a run of the mill state secondary school, after a run of the mill state primary school ('70s - '80s England). We had 'assembly' every day. We had to sing one hymn, and say the lord's prayer, every day. Up until it was time to choose O levels, we had a religion class every week. Didn't do me any harm - I'm not religious, nor is anyone in my family. I find it odd that anyone gets so upset about this pledge thing, considering all the religious crap that was shoved down my (and I presume a good portion of the rest of you) throat - or did I go to the only British schools like this? Is Burton Upon Trent (or maybe Staffordshire) the only area of Britain where this occured? Did it turn any of you into walking Religio-Zombies that required intervention from the PC Patrol to rescue you? Just curious.
The difference is that C of E is an established religion, it is the official religion of the UK.
The Constitution Forbids the establishment of a religion here in the USA.
p.s. When the V2s were coming over in 1944/45, my brother and I were sent to Kidsgrove to avoid them. It's a long story that I won't go into, but we were RC, but mum insisted we go to the regular school, so they made us sit out the assemblies.
[quote="londonsquare @ Wed Sep 14, 2005 429 pm"]
The difference is that C of E is an established religion, it is the official religion of the UK.
The Constitution Forbids the establishment of a religion here in the USA.
]
I know, but what I'm trying to get at is it made not one bit of difference to me, or anyone I know, in terms of how we came out in life or our opinions on religion. It was a mere annoyance, including to the 70-odd % of my classmates (myself included) who were not C of E to begin with (is anyone actually C of E? Don't think I ever met one), including Muslims and Hindus in that mix. There are a lot of serious cultural clashes coming to this country in the near future I think, especially with elections coming around soon and monkey-boy and his friends at an all-time low in the polls. Making yet another stink about something that is at the moment a relatively minor issue with the country (I mean, look at all the other more serious crap that needs sorting first) just gives people like Fox something to scream loud and long about, to shift the debate away from the real important stuff they don't want people to focus on too hard.
Basically, my opinion is the left should just leave the 'small' stuff like this until they have a more solid position in government. Wasting political capital on this is a mistake at this point in time. For every 2 converts disgusted by the antics and failures of the monkey-boy crew, one goes back to the fold when Fox starts screaming about 'pinko commie gays' trying to ban the pledge.
I agree that it doesn't have to harm and probably wouldn't.
The problem is that there are atheists and then there are proselytizing atheists, if you know what I mean.
I know, but what I'm trying to get at is it made not one bit of difference to me, or anyone I know, in terms of how we ......
(Edited to save space)
That's a good point actually.
I might be thick here, but I don't read the First Amendment as forbidding anything; it just says that Congress will not make any laws "respecting an establishment of religion".
Personally, I agree with "was" on this one. I too did the school assemblies with the mandatory hymn and the Lord's Prayer. It didn't turn me into a religious fanatic either. It was just something we all parroted off every morning in some meaningless, chanted fashion - which is exactly what the Pledge is to most schoolchildren here.
IMHO there are far more serious and pressing issues that taxpayers' money could be used for.