British Expatriate Network

Good, it's about time.

People looting stores for TV's and sneakers, armed gangs in the streets, idiots firing on helicopters and people coming to rescue them.

Horatio for someone who claims to be "apolitical" you look remarkedly like an administration lackey.
Federal Emergency Management Authority. is supposed to have, and did have plans in place for such a disaster. They did have, until they were reduced from a cabinet department to a neglected subdivision of Homeland Security. Bush appointed a Texas buddy with zero experience to head FEMA. He in turn, hired a buddy with zero experience to be deputy. The lead guy left and we got the deputy' The man is so inept that he didn't know anyone was in the Civic Center even though the media had been highlighting it because they were getting no assistance. A number of your criticisms of the state and city are correct but NO is such a vital resource, that the org chart should have been set up by FEMA so everyone knew what they would cover, and when the next layer would cut in. Chertoff is claiming that there are no studies forecasting this event. He is either lying or lied to.

Thanks for the size 18 text. That helped. :smile:

I don't disagree with you about FEMA. I was pointing out the initial responsibility was with the local & state organizations and they screwed up.

Not sure why that makes me an "administration lackey" ?

Price of a TV, $300, Price of a Sneakers $50, to educate and properly socialize the people priceless.

The very idea that educated people are shocked that under such conditions these people were reduced to their most primitive behavior is laughable. One just has to remember the New York blackout of the 70s and riots of the past to know that this sort of behavior is possible and likely to occur and have occured.

When a society fails to educate and to properly socialize a certain section of its people then one must expect anti-social behavior from these people. The average IQ of Louisiana and Mississippi is around 90 and 85 respectively. When a government (State or Federal) abandon a section of people who are primarily poor, uneducated and not properly socialized then what sort of behavior are you expecting to result from this?

We have seen this behavior so many times in the pass that it should have been part of a document describing the psychology of human behavior during a massive disaster; it should have been planed for. This would not have happened if the powers that be had move faster and done more for these people, not to mention take control and restore order.

I have lived through several such hurricanes including Gilbert (cat-5), our instinct after such disaster is to grab your tools join together with your neighbours and friends and help each other out, cut down trees, patch roofs , clean up, “one hand washes the other”, share what you have and make the best of a bad situation.

There will always be people in every society who will not think the way we do which is why it is important for the government to gain control firmly and quickly to prevent this sort of thing from happening. And on this point the United States Government both Federal and Local failed and failed big, it is not only incompetence but raciest and if it was not for massive criticism of the government by people across America and countries of the world I doubt this Government would have acted any faster. What is happening today should have happened the very next day or two after the hurricane.

If it had gone well Bush would have been running around getting his photo ops, taking the praise and I would not fault him, it happened on his watch and he gets all the blame and the fact that the Whitehouse spin machine is going into over drive pointing figures and passing blame is testimony to that.

This tells me that in a major disaster I should plan for myself and my family’s security, I cannot depend on the Government because I may not be the type of person the Government may want to protect. So while the pro republicans try to defend the Republican Government and the raciest tries to convince other that race was not a factor, the rest of us have no choice but to think about what would happen to us if a mass disaster was to occur in our area.

NO, Federal is at the top of the hierarchy not the bottom. They tell the state what they are going to do, NOT the other way around. New Orleans was trying to get people out but they couldn't get them out quick enough. Why did the FAA (FEDERAL big FEDERAL Air Admin) end flights out of N.O. Sunday morning when they could have flown people out all the way thru till Sun. evening. Can anyone name a class 3 hurricane where FEDs where not instantly involved in ????? They had a two day warning of a class fricking 5 heading straight to a city 7 feet BELOW sea level. I guess NOAA and ARMY CORP of ENG. took the day off (yeah FEDERAL EMPLOYEES do get the weekend off I forgot). I even saw a couple pay a cabbie $900.00 for a ride to ATL. Too bad everyone didn't have $900.00 to "get a cab". Why would someone pay that much to get out???? There was simply no other way out. I also saw a couple there on their honeymoon say on CNN, "We're here to celebrate our wedding anniversary. We tried to leave but people in authority ( I don't know who - I would be willing to say not local or state level) CONFISCATED our SUV." Politics is like nationalism. It totally blocks rational thinking / logic for these chicken little debates. Lets block out what we don't want to think because "I'm a Democrat or Republican" mentality. Lets rescue the people and debate about it later. That hungry mother of two starving children under a bridge tonight could care less. I am just taking my observation, putting it with my overall knowledge and writing. The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT - whoever the party is, is the one ultimately responsible. The FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT ADM. damn look at every word and break down that title EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT that is a FEDERAL ADM. is responsible. As I stated in my previous post they are phoney bologney org. anyways.

Again, this is Mangos yank husband., not the Mango herself. :wink:

You can get your own ID you know, Mr. mango -you don't have to be British to post here (it just helps ;) ) It's nice having you on board. :)

Thanks for the invite. British people are great. I've never noticed how great British women are til I married one. Americans have their heads so far up there ass as far as education and culture goes. I can say - that I'm one of them.I've heard the popping sound though and have a clear head.If I keep coming on here with her name I may have to do that. Cheerio, Chad

I just thought the illuminated capitals looked neat, and figuring how to do it gave me time to think about what I wanted to say. I said that you looked "remarkedly like one" not that you were one. Actually, I have some neat words and phrases that I've been wanting to put in a post, but with great reluctance, I've deciced each time that it isnt the place. I was very tempted to say you looked like a "lickspittle lackey" of the admini.... Oh well, I'll wait. 8)

Weirdo. lol

Depends entirely on how quick or slow the local authorities are in requesting assistance from the deral government. Hurricane Andrew is a prime example - where the govt. was criticised for not reacting soon enough & the governor was criticised for waiting 2 - 3 days before asking for help.

The whole organization thing is all screwed up. The military under federal control can help mitigate the consequences of a situation but not have a policing function unless the Prez issues a special decree. So when civilians, working for the Corps, came under fire, the Corps had to alert the state police to come and handle it.

FEMA needs a name change; it comes in after the emergency, it does not take part in evacuations. I presume that the military has to be ordered in by the Prez. I wonder who, if anyone, has the responsibility for recommendig it. It seems to me that there needs to be layers of "Duty Officers"; at FEMA HQ, at FEMA branches, at state, at county or city. I think that they should have reserved radio frequencies and dynamo powered radios. If a storm is coming, they could go over the triggers and responsible people before hand. These interactions should be checked at intervals anyway, because the same people would carry the ball in a terrorist attack.

The bottom line of the whole matter is not what we didn't do this time and who is at fault. Let us hope that a valuable lesson has been learned here. If the military can mobilize thousands of men in combat situations and supply them with food, medical supplies ammo evacs then preparations for civilian support should be a breeze. The maganitude of destruction is beyond belief. No matter how much planning FEMA and every planner could of done would not of prevented death and despair,we would be fools to think Fema will go door to door to ask everyone,"You OK heres some hot chocolate and enough food for a week for your family''.Texas and FLA are hours away by plane.There shouldn't have to be,FEDS-Need Help?, State-Ummm I don't know let me think about it for a day. I don't think this happened. How can anyone with all that destruction delay in asking for help. Sunday night 12 hours before it hit a alert should of went out to all military bases to load planes with supplies get ready to go in. National gaurd troops briefed and when all was clear attack N.O. with supplies like they attacked Iraq.Cut thru the chase does anyone think La. Miss. Ala. could provide support with a shoestring budget? Wouldn't it be obvious that they beyond a shadow of any doubt would need outside help? If there is a mandatory evac why didn't the sick and elderly get to leave? The evacs are a small part of the problem it is the emergency response that has been piss poor.All that chaos wouldn't be happening if people didn't have to rely on base survival tactics survival of the fittest.
I wonder who was in charge of these troops who gives the orders.I live in a military town dad was military and I was too. The men and woman of the armed foces do a great job - but do as they are ordered. How far up the chain of command do we go to get a stand down, in a national emergency. http//www.rense.com/general67/guards.htm

Here's the shortlist.

Governor Blanco should be heavily criticized.
Michael Brown of FEMA should be fired and whoever hired him arrested and flogged.
The Federal government should be heavily criticized for its woeful reaction.
The Department of Homeland Security should be heavily criticized as a pork-ridden entity that appears to be entirely impotent. I think Chertoff is more exempt of criticism than most, but nevertheless, after-action reports will evaluate whether he was effective or not.
Bush should be heavily criticized - and note doing so doesn't take away from criticism of others.

I think the direct criticism of Bush comes from the fact that the primary reason given to re-elect him was his ability and character in a times of crisis. His conduct during the hours and weeks after 9/11 was inspiring and comforting. Since then he's looked a tad crap. His behavior during this crisis has been insulting - his glib remarks and "everything is awesome" demeanor really got my goat and I don't reflexively hate him. The comment that "no one anticipated the levee breach is dumber than "Mission Accomplished." Saying Michael Brown is "doing a heck of a job" is insulting. Describing the destruction as greater than any weapon could inflict was a poor attempt to link this in some way to his "war presidency." His only reaction to the disaster has been to blame the locals. The administrations criticism of the Governor involves a flat-out-lie. It took him 9 hours to speak after Renquist died yet this couldn't drag him away from a 5 week vacation until 3 days in. His comment and laughter regards Trent Lott's house was beyond insulting. When it had been 5 days and no help had clearly arrived for thousand he said he was satisfied. That's satisfactory? Still today local officials are saying they have had no aid whatsoever from the Federal govenrment. Not good enough. When yo usee stories like Broussard gave to Tim Russert you really have to wonder what on earth the Federal government was doing. Having Brown and Chertoff deny that anything bad was happening when all could see it on their tv's said one thing - everything the administration says about Iraq is a lie. And to blame the "liberal media" for this was again, beyond insulting. You can't blame Bush for the hurricane (as some are) but you can attack him for cutting funding to levees, hiring Brown, and for being so unbearably glib and casual about this. You can attack him for having done nothing after 4 years since 9/11 to prepare for disasters effectively. In just one week his presidency looks like it has achieved nothing.

roll Just to throw something into the pot FEMA's role is only to do with emergancy stuff. It has no law and order role. So when its too dangerous to put teams in, shits gonna happen.

Heard this morning that the New Orleans police department had 15,000 police on the role, they only have 1,500 left working all the rest have buggered off. When society breaks down it gets down and dirty in a big way.

Apparently the Government wanted to Federalise the operation, but the governers did not want that to happen. There's gonna be alot to trouble and ass kicking to go around. Will it change things. Would hope so, but it won't. People have to look at them selfs to change but people don't want to do that, cuz they won't like what they see..

As for the race card, shit I thought things were bad in the UK , but here its a joke,everything no matter what it is suddenly comes down to race, until people get over all that, nothing is ever gonna change. Reminds me of Northern Ireland.
Something that happened 200-300 yrs ago, people are still fighting over.

You missed the mayor of New Orleans of your list, although this is excusable as he doesn't really exsist and is in fact a cartoon character. :grin:

I particularly enjoyed his comment about the president, saying "he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done"

He's no Giuliani.