? Morals where do they come from. Do they mainly come from a religious believe or by society knowing whats wrong and right. How do you know what is wrong and right?
I guess I ask the question because I wonder where people think its ok to kill individuals etc in the name of a god etc.
Always remember when a mosque opened near my parents place. There was a park behind it and that had been there for 100 yrs, but the people that went to the said mosque complained and got quiet verbal about people walking their dogs in the park etc said they were disrespecting them etc and that they would take matters into their own hands blah blah blah.
So where does disrespect, morals etc all come from. I can only say it comes from religion and the believe of "if you don't believe as I do, then you are wrong and should be dealt with"
I think this question has been asked through eternatity, but I don't think we have still got the right answer.
I mean if you look at Christens, over here especially in the south the death penalty is an ok thing. This is very much a preaching of the old testament and is contrary to the preaching of Jesus. Just wondering what everyone else thinks
I wonder if a sense of right and wrong is just something that is very loosely programmed into us. I wonder what would happen if someone was born into a totally isolated yet functional environment....how would they develop their sense of right and wrong? Afterall, I don't search through books, rather I feel what may be right or wrong in a certain circumstance.
I don't know, it's a great question.
Morals are a individual choice .
The problem comes when somebody sets themselves up to be the judge of mine .
I wonder if a sense of right and wrong is just something that is very loosely programmed into us. I wonder what would happen if someone was born into a totally isolated yet functional environment....how would they develop their sense of right and wrong? Afterall, I don't search through books, rather I feel what may be right or wrong in a certain circumstance.
I don't know, it's a great question.
If that was the case then why is stoning still an acceptable punishment in some countries, slavery still allowed in some countries and some adults believe that sex with boys and girls is fine and shouldn't be illegal here?
Morals are a individual choice .
The problem comes when somebody sets themselves up to be the judge of mine .
So, what you are saying is IF (and this is an if, I am certainly not saying that you would or have at all but hypothetically) you had an interest in little boys, it is wrong for someone to interfere with that because you don't see anything morally wrong with having sex with a child?
Or, there was a car accident where a drunk driver (who morally believes it is his right to drink and drive) killed your wife, your anguish resulted in you taking revenge on this person when you see him happily walking down the street one day. You kill him - but as far as you are concerned that is your right to do so because as an individual choice, revenge is sweet.
Hence the term "loosely" in my post. In pretty much all of these cultures, it is generally accepted that it is wrong to kill someone, commit adultary, kidnap, assault and so on. These are the general things I believe we may have been born with. All this other stuff can be subject to cultures different values and how you grow up. If it is true that you can be born with certain values then I guess it would also be true that there is also a certain amount of development of these values in the same way that there are development of other aspects of your personality. To think that we are all born with one mind that doesn't change throughout our lifetime would be daft.
Hence the term "loosely" in my post. In pretty much all of these cultures, it is generally accepted that it is wrong to kill someone, commit adultary, kidnap, assault and so on. These are the general things I believe we may have been born with. All this other stuff can be subject to cultures different values and how you grow up. If it is true that you can be born with certain values then I guess it would also be true that there is also a certain amount of development of these values in the same way that there are development of other aspects of your personality. To think that we are all born with one mind that doesn't change throughout our lifetime would be daft.
In which cultures is it generally accepted to be wrong to kill someone and in what circumstances are you talking? don't you think that the death penalty is killing someone? Don't you think that abortion is killing someone who has the ability for life outside of the mother? And what about self defence and someone dies? Is that wrong too?
In Japan for many centuries (and probably still true today for some) it was an honor to be killed or to kill. For African cultures, it was more important to die than to become a slave only a few hundred years ago. Death was not something to be feared but something to look forward to. We are shocked these days when mothers kill their children, however, it wasn't uncommon for some cultures to do this when they felt that death was better than becoming a slave for another tribe. It was better for them to kill their children than allow them to be captured. So to put that to kill someone is morally wrong - in who's eyes? to say that it is born into us to not kill - who? What is born into us is the natural instinct for self preservation and survival. If self preservation including killing your neighbour so that you get to eat tonight then how can that be morally wrong?
Oh, and adultery - according to scientists not all humans were built to be monogamous. Although we are the only animal to face our partners and this is supposed to help keep couples together, this is actually more true for women than for men if you look at their chances of reproduction. For a woman it is once a month, however for a man it is every day. this gives the human population a better chance of survival if a man does not stick with one women, but a woman sticks with one man. So where does the term adultery come from if according to scientists it isn't 100% true that a male and female generally mate for life?
8) Lets build on this then, one common moral to everyone, is not to kill. So when does it become ok to kill, are we saying then, that these people have no morals???
When we go to war, don't we all assume god is on our side, but are the other side thinking the same thing.
Its funny how we equate things, Have heard that the Muslim community are concerned after the shotting of that guy in stockwell
8) Lets build on this then, one common moral to everyone, is not to kill. So when does it become ok to kill, are we saying then, that these people have no morals???
When we go to war, don't we all assume god is on our side, but are the other side thinking the same thing.
Its funny how we equate things, Have heard that the Muslim community are concerned after the shotting of that guy in stockwell that the police are going to kill individuals without due process. I understand the concern, but these are very different times. I don't see these bombers asking everyone if it is okay to kill their victims. You can not take the risk that this guy did not have a bomb.
I understand that he was not connected with the attempted attacks, but does beg the question why did he run, why the bulky clothing on a hot day.
But you state that one common moral to everyone is to not kill. And you asked the question in your OP of do morals come from religion or a general knowledge of right from wrong. What I was trying to show was that different societies have different beliefs and differing ideas on what death means to them. Therefore due to this difference this type of moral is more a case of societies expectations depending on where you live and the natural innate animal instinct of protection of self and family. Let's face it, how many of us, no matter how much you believe in a God, would stand back and allow a person to come into your home and terrorize your family, rape your wife/daughter and not defend them as much as you could with what you had available. Would you feel morally wrong for doing such a thing?
Live in another country and another time even, and you will find that to kill another human being was and still is an accepted practice and considered morally right. For example, rape in the US and the UK is a crime whether it is the rape of a man or woman, it is against the law and punishable. If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant out of wedlock we do not look upon her as the scum of the earth and in both the US and the UK an abortion would be offered to her. You only have to go to another continent in this day and age to see how different this scenario would be.
Therefore, surely the idea of morals comes from religion and a society's belief and value of a human life. Jesus teaches Christians that killing is wrong, but there is also this realisation that humans are not perfect. In the old testament there are many stories of humans taking another human life, of wars and destruction or attempted destruction of races of people. I'm sure other religions will have similar situations, stories, and the teachings of their God/prophet. Does this mean that because many religions hold similar teachings that there is a moral behind these teachings to bring these teachings into play, or the difference between male and female or intelligence and non-intelligence?
I pretty much totally agree with you Ben. Although morals are mainly something we develop, I still think there is an inbuilt set at time t=0 from which we develop. I also still believe that it is generallyconsidered wrong in most cultures to kill. Of course there are circumstances which will lessen that instinct. Your example of a threat to the safety of you or your family being the obvious circumstance. The death penalty and abortion are special circumstances that some people consider the taking of a human life to be justified. It is the scale of where these justifications begin and end that makes the difference....it's not just black and white, right and wrong, there is a vignette from white, through grey, to black and we all sit somewhere in the middle.
8) Ben , yes I do agree with you, put I am trying to drill the question down even more. It seems every culture can agree at least one moral that is common to all.
Other morals seem to be more a society driven thing.
If you look at native american culture and the battle of little big horn, the press said the bodies were mutilated, but the natives were paying them respect same as tyhe Zulu wars. The bodies were multilated as per our culture, but they were saluting fellow warriors.
Come forward to modern day and take two cultures not a million miles apart in thinking. The UK has some 8,000 cctv camera's in london, not including privately held ones, we as londoners think nothing of it, but, here people would be up in arms about such a thing.
Even this morning was watch tv and they were talking about peoples bags being looked at on the underground system and yes people stood there saying it was wrong etc. The searching of bags is just a feel good factor for the general public as i doubt that many of the police officers really know what they are looking for in the first place. But as a feel good thing it works well.
well off to eat lol
Live in another country and another time even, and you will find that to kill another human being was and still is an accepted practice and considered morally right. For example, rape in the US and the UK is a crime whether it is the rape of a man or woman, it is against the law and punishable. If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant out of wedlock we do not look upon her as the scum of the earth and in both the US and the UK an abortion would be offered to her. You only have to go to another continent in this day and age to see how different this scenario would be.
Are you talking about "honour killings" here? If someone can believe in this, then it's quite understandable that they can believe all sorts of things.
Live in another country and another time even, and you will find that to kill another human being was and still is an accepted practice and considered morally right. For example, rape in the US and the UK is a crime whether it is the rape of a man or woman, it is against the law and punishable. If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant out of wedlock we do not look upon her as the scum of the earth and in both the US and the UK an abortion would be offered to her. You only have to go to another continent in this day and age to see how different this scenario would be.
Are you talking about "honour killings" here? If someone can believe in this, then it's quite understandable that they can believe all sorts of things.
Actually, in a few countries stoning is still carried out of women, like in Iran. If a woman is raped, it is considered that she is the one at fault and therefore punishment is by stoning until dead. If the woman is pregnant the stoning waits until after the baby is born and one year old. Honor killings I see more along the lines of it being during war time or like samurai soldiers.
And what about mercy killings?
Goose, I think it's great that you are wanting to drill the question down a bit more, but you say that every culture agrees on one moral - my argument is where and what? If the taking of another human life is your belief that all cultures agree that this is wrong, I'm trying to show that that isn't correct. There are still cultures that believe there is nothing wrong with taking another human life. So, therefore, this can't be a moral that is across the board. and also, it is only modern society that makes it this way. Surely, in order for morals to be innate, the trait needs to have been around for a very long time, so how do you account for sacrificial killings that have been around for thousands of years?
So, if the taking of another human life is not a moral dilemma, then is there a moral that does stretch across every human in the whole world?
Sorry Ben, what I meant by honour killings can be found out more here;
http//www.gendercide.org/case_honour.html
I think you're right, there is no culture (en mass) that thinks that all killings are wrong. Even I believe in "right to die" in certain circumstances.