British Expatriate Network

I have often pondered this question but because of the London explosions it has been brought to a head. I was wondering is Islam and Western Liberalism compatible. The view I get more and more recently is NO because although Muslims in the West complain about discrimination and prejudice. Muslims have more social and political freedoms than they would in their countries of origin and besides can you non-Muslims honestly say that in Muslim majority countries has anywhere the freedom of speech or be able to practice their religion without persecution?

This is going open a whole can of worms. Anyway....I know what you mean, and it does seem like that, that islam and western values don't go together in anyway shape or form.

I don't think it's the average muslim person though, it's more like the fundamentalist ones like whatshisnuts at the North london mosque ( the hook man ), that go round preaching hatred, and brainwash muslim that can be arsed to listen to him.

Muslims should respect and abide by the rules and laws of the country they live in, and accept the fact that it might be a christian or whatever country and they should try to inflict their religion on others ( the majorities in that country that might be of a different faith ).

You will be damned to think you can go to Saudi, Egypt, Indonesia ( the largest muslim country in the world ), et al , to try and change or inflict anything other than islam there on people.

On a radio station in london ( LBC ) online last night, a muslim guy called in to say he and his wife who happens to cover her face with a veil, had stones thrown at them yesterday evening whilst they were out and about, with people shouting at them and all that. A lot of mini cab places have suspended business for a while, because of the safety of their drivers.

I loved Ken Livingstone's speech yesterday, and that is the right attitude to have, straight from the heart, unlike the crap G Bush came out to spout.

I think it would help if we all had a modicum of respect for other peoples religion. Having been to several Muslim countries I'm always shocked at the American women who turn up to sight see in shorts and tank tops. When in their countries, cover your body, show respect.
And when they come to live in western countries, could we let them alone a bit. i'm so tired of the Christian God being the only one.

What you have to remember is that the bombing is not done by all followers of Islam. That would be like saying all the IRA bombings were done by all Catholics.
Oh, hang on, that's right, there was this Guy Fawkes person and for years afterwards RC's were hunted and shamed.

Too much God too little humanism.

What, places like Brunei or Indonesia?

That's like asking are Fundamentalist Christianity and Western Liberalism compatible? No, they're not.

Respect goes both ways, Annie. And an understanding of the cultures of the countries you either visit or decide to join goes both ways too.

There is no right or wrong on a lot of cultural differences. However, sometimes, even with education to help people understand each other is still not enough, but it does go a long way.

Couldn't agree more Ben, respect goes both ways. No one questioned Christianity when the Oklahoma bombing happened. All Christians weren't tarred with the same brush. Yet a few radical nutters bring about Islam versus the rest of the world. I don't think so.

I have a few muslim friends back in London. The ones I know go to work, pay their taxes and have all the markings of an ordinary citizen.

They also tell me that since 9/11 being a muslim has become more difficult because they have all been tainted by the extremists.

So the point is many muslims can and do function quiet happily in the west. The reason islamic nations don't 'do' democracy well is because of their inability to seperate politics and religious conviction.

Much as I'm saddened by what happened I'm not going to write-off all muslim people because of it.

What were real reasons the IRA stopped bombing London?
1. Political solution for NI negotiated by politicians including IRA supporters Sein Fein.
2. Many of the injustices that generated the IRA's were removed.
3. While all this was happening they caught and locked up numerous Irish terrorists.
4. The Irish Republic Govt & people supported UK against the terrorists.

How many times did we hear than Northern Ireland problem would never be resolved? There are answers out there - though I'm pretty certain invading Iraq post 9/11 was not one of them.

But Christians are persecuted and executed in Islamic countries. This is a Chrisitan country therefore it is understandable that Christians would not be questioned. I am sure Muslims are not questioned about their faith in countries where the Muslim religion is in the majority.

Take away the actions of the public, the laws of this land, and that of the UK and other European countries give freedom to those of all religions. Can the same be said for Muslim countries? The UK used to have laws that didn't allow religious freedom and just look at our history to see how this affected the country and its people and how long it has taken for some religions to be accepted. Until all countries around the world allow freedom of all kinds (it isn't just religion, there is the freedom for women too), then acceptance will never happen and resentments will continue, both here, the UK and countries where some religions are illegal.

Until there is respect all around the world, there will never be a stop to the blood shed.

I thought the UK made a big step forward when it allowed Jedi knight as a religion on the census form wink

I believe you left one important item off your excellent list: the European Union. As the Union developed, borders in Europe became more and more irrelevant and the concept of European citizenship conferred rights for minorities and supported cultural diversity. Moreover, Union membership revitalised economies, especially that in the South thereby generating a rapid and marked change in demographics. At that point, there really did not seem to be any point in continuing the silly and bloody squabble.

Like China, for instance?

China has come a long way. They're even beginning to allow foreign missions inside the country. There are also some Chinese Christian missions going on now.....fairly safely compared to in Indonesia and the Philipines.

8) I think this the main question really. The cleric that was arrested in london sometime back was basically kicked out of this home country, because he preached hatred etc. Funny Brits take him in and then he starts preaching against Britain. Even his own Muslim brothers did not want him around.

So if the UK ever did go muslim, people like him will still not be happy, until you do it his way. The freedoms that we are afforded are the very freedoms that they hate but the crazies extremists love to us.

Its all a shame really cuz I do believe that 90% of the worlds population would love just getting along with each other. We are being played by 10% and we let them do it.

Yes.....Abu Hamza has been causing a lot of crap in the UK, especially in london, and it's a well known fact that the shoe bomber spent some time at his mosque as well in north london.

He is married to a white british bird, so it might be hard to boot him out of the country.

Since yesterday, two Americans have talked to me about the bombings and asking (seriously) which countries Britain will attack in revenge for them?

I was too stunned by this continuing stupidity to even answer them on either occasion.