British Expatriate Network

8) At last they have done something right for the rest of us. It's already falling apart, when they don't stick to the rules they laid down for joining the Euro etc. Plus how long do you think it could last, when a vast majority
of the countries in it, take more than give. That will inturn make those that do all the giving abit PO.

We should have never joined in the first place lol. Wonder what the next great plan is and I guess they have learnt a lesson here and not put it to the people again.

What your specific objections?

They do say Holland will follow.

I think this has more to do with not wanting grand-dads government. The idea is great, the practice needs to be updated on a regular basis, which is not happening.

GB should be paying back bundles of dough.

I also wonder if this had anything at all, a smidgeon even, to do with the fact that GB takes over the presidency on July 1st. Just in time to get ready for the Independence celebrations!!

My question would be - if all nations need to ratify and France have said no, why continue? Meaning, the same constitution needs to be put in front of France again by Oct 2006 - you cannot change it or you'd have to completely redo voting in every other country.

I also feel a little for other countries who have spent so much to join and now face the possibility that the whole thing will wither away.

I pretty much agree with Annie - nice idea but poorly done. There needs to be WAY more accountability, and it needs to be more about being good for Europe and less about being bad for the US.

8) Moo you ask me

What your specific objections?

Ummmm I have a long long list.

1- It was settle up as the EC. Designed to protect Europes heavy industry
against other larger suppliers, but allowing free trade without any
government aid within the EC. Seems straight forward, so the Uk play
the game. All coal and steel industry went belly up in England, while
France and Germany continued giving their heavy industry aid. We
played by the rules and got the short end of the stick.

2- Again same members states help set the rules about where people
need to be to become part of the monertary union. Ummmm those
plus a couple more are now the ones breaking those very rules.

3- There is why to much fraud being carried out and money wasted, like
moving the parliement to france for one meeting at the the cost of
hundreds of thousands.

4- A bunch of people that no one knows or elected, telling other
people how to run their country.

5- Even when the BSE thing happened in the UK and the ban was lifted
the French still would not let UK beef into the country, again breaking
the very rules they help setup.

6- UK is a country that pays in most and get the least out of it. If the
votes are based on population, the UK will have very little say in the
way it should move. Maybe if they changed it those places that pay
the most I would feel alittle more easy.

7- The maths don't add up either. Alot of countries in Europe a poor, very
poor and the newer ones entering are even worse. They therefore will
drain the ones that pay more into the system. That spells trouble.
You only have to look at Germany to see that, where the far right and
communists are on the rise.

8- Each county especially those that are pushing hard for the unity are
the worse offenders when it comes to protecting their own interest and
screw the rest. Look at the french farmers, lorry drives, just to name
a few.

9- When the Uk dropped out of the monertary union they said it was be
extremely bad for the UK. It never happened, infact the reverse
happened. Better economic growth, lower unemployment, stronger
pound, compared to what the rest of Europe is going through.

I have loads more but don't want to bore people lol, plus need to get another beer lol

6- UK is a country that pays in most and get the least out of it. If the
votes are based on population, the UK will have very little say in the
way it should move. Maybe if they changed it those places that pay
the most I would feel alittle more easy.



http//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_economy/286761.stm

http//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_economy/286761.stm

I think your figures may have been right once upon a time but of late we take much more than we give, Maggie saw to that.
Bit irrelevant now though.

I thought MEPs were elected? :o

I think this argument is applied to the UN, not the EU.

You mean like California holding up Alabama or Kansas? Sure, but its not huge problem. I'm sure businesses love the idea of being able to have factories making stuff really cheaply in poorer parts of the EU.

I'm in favour of the EU. The idea of 'distributive system' - taking money from the rich and giving money to the poor is not exclusive to the EU and there are pletny of examples of why this is practiced. (See JM Keynes - Top 10 most harmful books in the world listed elsewhere :D ). Europe is still UK's largest export market so if its getting bigger and richer we should be pleased.

The ideals behind the EU are far more nobler that you imply and has been successfull in bring Euro nations to together to reslove issues peacefully. It also does not do a bad job in preserving a high living standards for members. Therefore, to say that ithe EU is on the verge of the collapse is an overstatement.

When the UK was denied entry to the EU it was largely because De Gaulle wanted to preserve it as a Gallic counter-point to Anlgo-Saxon hegemony (US/UK).

The best thing about this result is that it is another nail in the coffin for France's outdated notions that they offer some kind of alternative rallying point to the US. M

The participation of new members like Poland and other EE nations creates a far more pro-American EU and further marginalizes the French Agenda. In fact - according to my reading this was a factor in some no voters thinking. The EU

Europe is still UK largest export market. Europe and the US also have many shared interests. So the EU needs to be reformed - agreed - but hoping for its collapse is to anyones advantage.

8) adeshell, you vote for an MEP correct, but when did you ever vote for the president of the EC. Never

You said a 'bunch of people'. Isn't the EU president rotated between the member states and thus the president has been elected by whoever's turn it is?

It would be interesting to have an EU president directly elected by the people though.

I think Germany is now gearing up for taking the lead in the EU.

What... did they put a large beach towel on the podium or something?

lol

I see not everyone is happy.

http//crookedtimber.org/2005/05/31/the-sheer-gaul-of-them/

"Why I’m a little irritated with France

For falling asleep at the wheel in 2002 and letting back in to the Elysee a fraud who has no vision for France, no values apart from expediency, and whose number one professional objective was using the office to stay out of jail.

For thinking Supermenteur is kind of funny and harmless with his man of the people, socks in his sandals routine, when he’s spent the last 8 years lying to the people and assuring them it’s ok to put off, say, retirement reform till it’s too late to save the pensions of anyone under 40.

For letting Chirac keep as prime minister a one man crumple zone who took all the knocks for the right’s policies but had no mandate to do anything except fold when the public sector unions got stroppy.

For being hoodwinked by the government into blaming everything else on the EU.

For running a corporatist closed shop of unions and business leaders who don’t give a damn about the excluded unemployed and the perpetually damned ‘sans-papiers’.

For endless criticism of the US 2004 presidential outcome combined with chippy defensiveness when the French vote mostly on domestic issues to tell the rest of Europe to kiss off.

For endless rhetoric about the European ideal (especially in the pre-amble of said constitution) and the coming together of nations in harmony, etc. etc., based on the assumption that France is the true driving force

For insisting in the first place that the constitution be written by a self-important old windbag / ex-President of France.

For constant efforts to impose its own social model on the rest of Europe – not so we can enjoy the benefits, but to weigh us down with the costs so we provide less competition for France.

For self-congratulation at vanquishing ‘anglo-saxon capitalism’ while handing incoming EU President Tony Blair carte blanche to shape the outcome of the French non.

For assuming that if the French don’t like this painstakingly negotiated agreement, everyone else will quickly iron out the wrinkles and present one that’s more to France’s taste.

For the assumption that if France votes no, then the constitution is automatically dead. Just how democratic is that, protest voters? (Don’t Austria, Germany, Belgium, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Lithuania, Slovakia, Slovenia and Spain count? They’ve all voted yes – in parliament or referendum – and by overwhelming majorities.)

For its refusal to have any debate about admitting Turkey to the EU that doesn’t start with straw men (‘then why not Syria too?) and finish with inchoate mutterings that are nonetheless held to be self-explanatory (But …they’re Muslims.).

For bringing the country to a standstill every five minutes to protest Canute-like about global economic forces.

For its dubious insistence on making the European Parliament pack its boxes every single month and shuttle to Strasbourg, a lose-lose symbolic practice that showcases French blocking power while keeping MEPs frazzled and weak. (So that’s probably a win-win if you’re the French government, then.)

For the CAP. How can it still be alive…? (Answer because CAP also stands for collective action problem.)

And so on.

I may have over-stated my case just a tiny little bit. And I have experienced and enjoyed too many aspects of the French exception to not be a little complicit too. But, gentle French readers, if you find yourself jibing at the irritation of your fellow Europeans over the next week or two, keep in mind that these are the angry little thoughts zinging around in our heads. They will pass. And no one will be pouring French wine into the gutters. But you should know not all fellow Europeans regard this as France’s finest hour."

The comments are worth reading too.