) Okay. I like breaking things down into simple things and that's what I have been trying to achieve over the last couple of postings. P.S. Don't you think this would make a good title for a song??
To me, there are many things wrong in this world as most people would probably agree. To me, this all comes down to faith, morals and prejudices. Faith is very much an individual thing, whether you believe in a daisy, green aliens from Mars or nothing. Each has their own reason for following that path. This path is varied and it usually changes depending on individual circumstances. You can see this when individuals that never really believed in a deity in their younger years suddenly find "said deity" in their informative years.
Morals, ummmm..... everyone knows whats right and wrong and acceptable behavior within society. Even nut cases have a moral understanding.
Prejudices - we seem to pick this up from society. Human behavior is very fickle and people tend to jump on the band wagon just to be on that band wagon and not stand out. Even though within themself they know its wrong.
What do we see in today's society? People on the extreme religious side dictating what faith should be and, therefore, what the current moral standard should be. This in turn breeds prejudice. If you don't believe what I believe and you will burn in eternal hell's fire!
So, where does this end? We are human beings. We will, therefore, use munipulate words and meanings to intimitate and further a cause. You only to look at History and historical facts to show that. The blending of the old and new testament when there messages are completely different. The fact churchs (human ran) have munipulated the "Word of God" to suit their needs. An example would be the Catholic Church using England to suppress the Irish way back before the modern Irish problem. The church being used to move Nazi war criminals during the Second World War. Henry VIII abolishing the Catholic Church so he could marry. The book of common prayer being made illegal to the common people. Famous american evangelists preaching "the word" and driving around in Rolls Royce's and having mansions. All this has been done by human beings that choose to intrepet the word for their own good.
We have all been approached by various groups to join their Church, be saved and told all other religions are false. They never have an answer when you ask them "how do they know they are the true religion". They explain their way of thinking but again you ask "how do you know you are right"? What if they see behind the gates a bunch of C of E people behind the pearly gates and that they were the false religion? The fact is no one knows!
Morals, ummmm..... everyone knows whats right and wrong and acceptable behavior within society. Even nut cases have a moral understanding.
Where does homosexuality fit into this cut-and-dried morality?
8) Monster that all depends on you as an individual. You can say where does murder fit into the question or even picking your arse.
Are you the type of person that say's ummmm I don't think thats right and therefore you are a threat and need to be put down for the greater good or hay don't understand it, but not going to judge you as an individual.
Me, I don't understand it (to me guys have ugly bodies) but its not to me to judge that individual.
but you said
everyone knows whats right and wrong and acceptable behavior within society. Even nut cases have a moral understanding.
This implies that they all have the same ideas. And if not, then how do you decide who is the nutcase?
You aren't born knowing what's right or wrong.
You have to learn it as you grow.
If you have good teachers who have learnt what is right/wrong or acceptable behavior you will in turn know the difference.
If you don't have people to teach you these lessons you end up in jail/prison/dead, because you learn that doing wrong is ok unless you get caught, or it's ok if no-one gets hurt.
Nothings as black and white as it seems.
Interesting. I wonder if we are all born with at least a few inbuilt morals. Imagine someone being born in some kind of isolated and sterile environment where all they get are the basics like nouishment, language skills and so on. I think they'd grow up with at least some skills of empathy and would be able to at least reason if something is right or wrong.
I'm only speculating of course.
but you said
everyone knows whats right and wrong and acceptable behavior within society. Even nut cases have a moral understanding.
This implies that they all have the same ideas. And if not, then how do you decide who is the nutcase?
I think he means that the nutcase would be a person whose ideas don't comply with the majority of people - he is outside the bounds of their conventional thinking. But then, how do you know the majority of people aren't nutcases? This is America after all.... :D
I think part of the difficulty is that many people presume that there are at least some universal 'morals' - that at some level their are certain fundamentals we all agree on.
However this is a very entocentric view and simply not true.
I for one don't see homosexuality as in any way a moral issue. Personally I regard the inimate relations of two consenting adults to be their business, not mine.
When you interview people about 'morals' and ask them if they are universal, almost always the first thing they say is 'murder is wrong in all societies'. Problem is that 'murder' is a legal concept and subject to a legal definition - the intentional unlawful taking of the life of another human being.
Honour killings remain a part of some cultures; according to US and English law such killings are murder. According to the communities that practice such killings, they are legitimate.
I'm not being relativist here; I in no way endorse honour killing. However from this one example you can see that the issue of universal morality is not a clear cut as some people might like.
Right or wrong in a democracy is biased on the rule of law and all people have a responsibility to follow them regardless of anything else. Moral judgments are just a matter of ones point of view, it's just sad that there are those that can’t agree to disagree forcing their moral choices on others.
Give it a few hundred years and this will change, as for all the interbreeding of humans that in now in place will lead to a less diverse human race in terms of a visual perceptive. Shame evolution takes such a long time as I'm sure the world will be a better place down the line.
Tne moral *thou shall not kill * is certainly not universally or even nationally as clear cut as you may think .
the killing of a top ranking politicain with whom you disagree is called assassination and like war is justified by some of the most strict moralists as is the killing of a family planning doctor while the same citizens are crying *stop abortion ALL life is sacred *.
The moral thou shall not steal .
another one that is subject to interpretation according to the situation. Politicans rob us every day but justify it by calling it *taxas * ill get one in hthe eye from ROB for that remark ) ) )
and of course robin hood is a staple of english folk law and considered some sort of hero .
Most times quoting the * morals as defined by scrptures * is one thing when it comes to actual life situtions it becames something differant and a conveniant exception is found .the rules are changed according to where you are ,what you are doing, and what you support at that particular time .
JMHO
lol
Sorry John the typo got me... did you mean to write "Texas is robbery"? wink
John...I put your post into Google Translator and my computer crashed. wink
:) Okay. I like breaking things down into simple things and that's what I have been trying to achieve over the last couple of postings. P.S. Don't you think this would make a good title for a song??
To me, there are many things wrong in this world as most people would probably agree. To me, this all comes down to faith, morals and prejudices. Faith is very much an individual thing, whether you believe in a daisy, green aliens from Mars or nothing. Each has their own reason for following that path. This path is varied and it usually changes depending on individual circumstances. You can see this when individuals that never really believed in a deity in their younger years suddenly find "said deity" in their informative years.
Morals, ummmm..... everyone knows whats right and wrong and acceptable behavior within society. Even nut cases have a moral understanding.
Prejudices - we seem to pick this up from society. Human behavior is very fickle and people tend to jump on the band wagon just to be on that band wagon and not stand out. Even though within themself they know its wrong.
What do we see in today's society? People on the extreme religious side dictating what faith should be and, therefore, what the current moral standard should be. This in turn breeds prejudice. If you don't believe what I believe and you will burn in eternal hell's fire!
So, where does this end? We are human beings. We will, therefore, use munipulate words and meanings to intimitate and further a cause. You only to look at History and historical facts to show that. The blending of the old and new testament when there messages are completely different. The fact churchs (human ran) have munipulated the "Word of God" to suit their needs. An example would be the Catholic Church using England to suppress the Irish way back before the modern Irish problem. The church being used to move Nazi war criminals during the Second World War. Henry VIII abolishing the Catholic Church so he could marry. The book of common prayer being made illegal to the common people. Famous american evangelists preaching "the word" and driving around in Rolls Royce's and having mansions. All this has been done by human beings that choose to intrepet the word for their own good.
We have all been approached by various groups to join their Church, be saved and told all other religions are false. They never have an answer when you ask them "how do they know they are the true religion". They explain their way of thinking but again you ask "how do you know you are right"? What if they see behind the gates a bunch of C of E people behind the pearly gates and that they were the false religion? The fact is no one knows!
Sounds like you have a few prejudices of your own if you refer to the mentally disabled as "nut cases" and you characterise people with strong faith as believing in ".....daisy, green aliens from Mars or nothing."
but you said
everyone knows whats right and wrong and acceptable behavior within society. Even nut cases have a moral understanding.
This implies that they all have the same ideas. And if not, then how do you decide who is the nutcase?
I think he means that the nutcase would be a person whose ideas don't comply with the majority of people
Oh, like the people who don't believe homosexuality is immoral? :roll:
but you said
everyone knows whats right and wrong and acceptable behavior within society. Even nut cases have a moral understanding.
This implies that they all have the same ideas. And if not, then how do you decide who is the nutcase?
I think he means that the nutcase would be a person whose ideas don't comply with the majority of people
Oh, like the people who don't believe homosexuality is immoral? :roll:
You really believe that a majority of people believe homosexually is immoral? Nah, a sizeable minority, but not a majority.