British Expatriate Network

Was listening to NPR yesterday and a guest speaker made the argument that in modern society we have no idea what to do with affluence. In summary, they said that it is only in very modern times that a majority of the population have not had to live at subsistence levels. Now we are comfortable citizens who generally don't have to worry about how to get buy. Instead we live comfortably, surrounded by flashy gadgets and consumer products that improve our material lives. They then suggested that we are hitting a crisis point - American capitalism isn't behaving in a way anyone imagined. Aided by inept economic policies and unknown effects of globalization, America is breaking.

I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately - in my short time here the state of things seems to have gone to pot. Federal government is in deep debt, state government even more so, and judging by my counties enormous fiscal problems, the fit is about to hit the shan.

So my question is - is this the beginning of the end of good times in America?

No. It began a few years back and you haven't been watching enough Daily Shows. You have been mercilessly bombarded with right wing subversive shenanigins and are suffering temporarily from an "oh Sh*t" reaction, quite common in intelligent people who one day wake up and realise what's happening. Fear not. A weekend of beer and BBQ will sort it out. Get out the comics, grab the wifey and generally behave as you would back home, the feeling will pass and you will feel better, although, ripped off, lied to, cheated and generally let down. wink

Nice to see you coming aboard Gavin.
Everytime I get on to my decline and fall of the American empire riff, I get shot down.

The stock response is misquote Mark Twain.."tales of my death have been greatly exagerated".

However I agree with you. We came here around the same time I think, and I too have noticed a the decline. Whether it is permanent or passing is hard to say, but with the level of denial and belief in American exceptionalism - it doesn't look good.

As I've said before, i take no joy in this, I live here - if the ship sinks, I go down too.

OK, seriously NO. This is what is known as democracy at work. Before this you heard nothing that wasn't good. Now you're beginning to hear all the good things didn't materialize.
It's what's known as the ground swell, the slow but definite movement of people banding together and deciding they don't like their government.

Come to California for a weekend. That's all it will take to see the slow but definite turn against the governor Ahnold. His popularity is falling faster than a... something that falls really fast.
It's what happens when you upset the ordinary people that society depends on, you know, nurses, teachers, cops, the backbone of society that make it easy for you to live your life.

This happened half way thru Clinton's time, the republicans began a muttering campaign, then it got swept up in tawdry sex, now we have Tom Delay leading the party into a plethora of smut and the ripples spread.

The end of the good times is threatened only by laziness and one thing you can say for Americans is they ain't lazy.
Or are you the kind of guy happy to get up at 5.30am drive for an hour, work like a loon, get home at 9pm and continue working until past midnight when you take in TV for a while and then crash for a few hours before starting all over again. So many live like that. How many do back home?

The only problem at the mo that seems unconquerable is China. So if you're wearing cheap Chinese cotton knickers, you're contributing to the unemployment in this country. D

I'm thinking more about economic poo than Republican poo. There just doesn't seem to be any way to pay for anything. Maybe I'm tainted by the horrific state of my county - bankruptcy is just around the corner. My question relates more to whether America's economy is going to go tits up. My limited understanding of economics is that to get an idea of where things are going you have to watch the bonds markets. And they look pretty shabby. And I don't point to the US as if it lives in a vacuum - free market driven economies around the world have been stuck in a horrid stasis period for years that no one really seems to be able to explain. Hell, when Milton Friedman says that he doesn't understand why things are behaving this way then I'm utterly confuzzled. I don't really sense the state of affairs is tightly linked to this Republican party, and that things will change when it does. I'm thinking more in terms of a growing financial crisis hitting the US. There's suddenly this realization that there isn't any money. Reminds me of David Stockman finding out under Reagan that supply side economics just cannot work. Spend too much and you go broke - doens't seem to have been figured out since tho.

As for India and China - I'm always surprised that most commentators barely mention the things that happened in the West when it went through industrialization. If things take a similar course, both countries will suffer horrifying depressions, enormous civil unrest from below demanding democratic recognition, the possible rise of polar opposite extremist politics, and other fun things. Seems like to much inevitability in the view they'll be modern industrial societies some time next week.

Get yourself a copy of Freakonomics, if nothing else it will cheer you up, as to the lack of money, there's money, it's just a case of prying it out of their cold dead hands. Never have so many billionaires held so many poor people too ransome in history. the revolution will be bloodless but effective. )

Exactamundo. I confess to agreeing with John Kenneth Galbraith that it makes no sense to see Americans living in beautiful houses, driving huge expensive cars in communities with no police, crap skools, and naff municipal facilities. Americans have lived like this way too long - try convincing people that more money for municipal programs might be a good idea. Yes I just said more taxes! But of course, trim the fat and boot out that pork-barrellers first. I have no idea how there can be so many wealthy people in my county (and I mean filthy rich) and yet much of it is falling to bits.

8) To be honest I do not know if anyone does know. Just look at the impact the pc was to have on everyone. We would have more time off to be with family as more and more was turned over to computers.

Has it happened? Nope. We tend to be working longer hours for less.

As for not being able to just get by, ummmmm I often compare the UK to US on this. US has always been a quick fix place, you know, heres a pill etc, but does not really address the real problem.

It has never really faced the some of the problems that have faced say England, the Blitz and rationing etc. When something does come along that the old world has had to deal with, Terrorists etc, they seem to feel the way round it is to throw money at the problem (quick fix), rather than a structured approach.

So based on that I'll say we will find it hard over here, but eventually get it figured one way or other, after all it did get through the great depression etc

Perhaps

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...Id=4623744

Perhaps not.

I think there is a groundswell building against the Republicans - said so previously.

But that is only part of the issue. I think that America is built on a lot presumptions - we hear them daily - biggest, tallest, best, fastest in relation to the reast of the world. america is an exception to all the rules that apply to everyone else.

America has is the richest most efficient country with the lowest unemployment and the greatest healthcare system.

But for America, europeans would all speak German or Russian.

Now people here are begining to realize that these things aren't true and that is a bit painful, like a bereavment almost.

I think it probably started before 9/11, but the events of that day were a big psychological shock. You hear frequently, people, news media etc saying 'the world changed'.

Of course the world didn't change in a day, but for many Americans there was an abrupt recognition that the world actually counted for something, that people out in that world could hurt them, could affect their lives.

Since then america's power hasn't really diminished but the perception of that power has become more realistic. America couldn't force its views on the UN and get a resolution to attack Iraq, it couldn't stop the International Criminal Court or Kyoto; it couldn't find an easy win in Iraq or Afghanistan.

The worlds only super power doesn't look so super.

At home people watch jobs go overseas, increacingly they are losing healthcare insurance or finding it is inadequate, and now Bush helpfully runs around the Country telling them that Social Security is bankrupt adn they are all doomed unless they allow him to put their taxes into markets -that post Enron, no one trusts.

Unfettered capitalism, a strong undefeatable military and economic supremacy are part of America's self image - all now undermined. Al they are left with is there religion - no wonder so many are hoping for the Rapture (if nothing else it thin out all those godless chinese people :wink: )

I hope that what is happening now part of a process - like grief - and that a better, healthier and most constructive country comes out of it. But I'm far from certain that this is the case.

Hell, I'm so lazy I outsourced answering my telephone to India. Now if you call my house someone i nNew Delhi answers it pretending to be me.

I used Galbraith as the theoretical underpinning for my undergraduate thesis on the fallacy of competition in capitalist economies. I took a few liberties (filled in the gaps) with his theories, but it was fun stuff to work with.

He's coming to speak here next week, "which will be nice."

Very often when I look at the lead story in our newspaper I can't help thinking that these are the neurotic concerns of the well-fed.

A good book that deals with what you're talking about Bungle from quite a few years back is 'The Culture of Complaint' by Robert Hughes. The former Australian, now an American argues that many of the values that were once so admirable in the United States, individuality, hard work, free-spiritedness, entrepeneurial savvy, toughness etc. has become a country of whiners and lawyers (to paraphrase the thesis extremely crudely).

Well thats certainly why I came here... not nearly enough whining and lawyering going on back home :wink: :D

If China call us out on international finance, quite possibly.

/is poor anyway.