British Expatriate Network

http//story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1512&ncid=1512&e=9&u=/afp/20050119/wl_afp/spainreligionsexaids_050119195757

what needs to be said??? one day the church will lurch forward into the 21st century .

Oh John. Been married to a catholic for 11 years now. Only one kid. My Mum was a catholic. She only had two. None of us to date have AIDS.

Just wanted you to stop worrying about it really. D

I don't think the debate is applicable to your average married couple in the industrialized countries but about the huge "epidemic" going on in Africa inparticular.

Perhaps not. Just tired of the "catholic debate" coming up every few months. Was just trying to shut one of them up really. It's not like I don't ignore 90% of this catholic bashing shit.

Sorry you dont LIKE any posts about catholics .. ll remember to ask you next time i feel the need to post .

Quess its allright if you post a bash the govt thread now and again im tired of that to .

Maybe we should all have a *quota *of touchy subjects we can post each month ???

Just trying to say I iignore 90% of this catholic bashing shit. As I did in the UK. No wonder I'm an expat.

Posted out of ignorance.

There are two different angles here though.

One is that sex outside marriage is not condoned by the RC church. If you both partners are faithful to this teaching, then the chances of contracting HIV are very low. Therefore, condoms are not particularly beneficial to that faithful Catholic couple...

Now, if the HIV came via a blood tranfusion, then that would be a different debate, wholly focussed on the anti-contraception doctrine.

Well I never get bored of this debate - and won't until the theocrats give up trying to impose their dogma on the developing world - in the face of the overwhelming evidence of the damage it does.

I speak as an atheist and also as one thoroughly bashed (ex) Catholic - in my experience most of the bashing of Catholics was done by other Catholics and tended to leave more than hurt feelings.

Whether middle class Catholics in the indutrialized world follow Catholic doctrine (most don't) is irrelevant - they can afford the 'luxury'.

However the problems of population growth and HIV are being exacerbated by Catholic dogma - a dogma which is cynically designed to increase the size, power and influence of a wholly undemocratic, totalitarian State (the Vatcian) with a poor record on human and civil rights.

And Dianey - I easily distinguish between ordinary members of the faith - many of whom I remain related to - and the corrupt, self-serving and cynical hierarchy. And also, as I think I mentioned before - I used to work for the Catholic church, and in the same circumstances would do so again - criticizing their policies is not Catholic bashing - its highlighting some uncomfortable truths to an organization that has a long tradition of moving its problems to another parish and hoping no one sues.

this posted out of intolerance of the truth and opposing views

But what about logic?

Of course the logic is thaqt there are many millions of catholics thought out the world most of them in underdeveloped and poor countries who have (chosen ) i use that word with reservations to follow the catholic faith and folow its doctrin ,

( otherwise whats the point of believing ?? ) its these people underprivaledged ,undereducated where the religious dogma of the catholic church do the most damage procuring unwanted children and desease in already distressed and hungry nations .

Of course in middle class families in nation like america the dogma of *no contraception * is wildly ignored and only token respect is shown to the teaching of catholicism while the followers preach to others about being a * good catholic * thats where the hypocrosy comes in . in words supporting a dogmatic religion but in private ignoring one of its strongest and most restictive directive .

im saying this as a athiest not perticulary knocking the catholic religion as im sure all faiths have there dogmas ,contraditions and hypocrasy , but the catholic church seems to one of the most vocal in its preaching of its dogma and its this ( visability ) that brings on the questioning of that religion and its esasperated by its insistance (up till recently ) of hiding from the public its transgressors .most other religions keep a low profile and are not intent on telling the rest of the world how WRONG they are.

It seems the catholics want it both ways .

This may sound stupid but if you are not a Catholic why should you worry what is said by the Catholic church. They dont come canvessing to your door and harrass you with their beliefs do they?


I beleive in "each to their own" and if its not going to effect me or mine why spend the time and energy arguing over it.

No but they do have a great deal of influence in other parts of the world - particularly the developing world - not just over individuals but over governments (like Ireland in the 50's). This influence is about power - Catholocism is in a battle with Islam for the hearts, minds and pockets of the masses. Remember that the Catholic Church is in (terminal) decline in the west - and without a congregation there will be no church.

I'm happy for people to believe whatever they want - but I'm not uncritical, particularly when those beliefs are being used in a way that is costing many thousands, if not millions, of lives.