Another example of the brutality of the American occupation. American "soldiers" left five wounded Iraqi resistance fighters without any medical treatment for 24 hours, then returned and shot the only one still alive in the face. He was unarmed.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=254802
Thats always gone on. The difference is that those embeded reporters are watching every move.
However in this case a marine had just been killed by a booby trapped dead Iraqi. Thats what war is all about.
As much as we may dissagree with this war it's the front line soldiers that are in the line of fire, not armchair critics.
What else do you expect?
Thats always gone on. The difference is that those embeded reporters are watching every move.
However in this case a marine had just been killed by a booby trapped dead Iraqi. Thats what war is all about.
As much as we may dissagree with this war it's the front line soldiers that are in the line of fire, not armchair critics.
What else do you expect?
This has nothing to do with an opinion about the legitimacy of the war, its about the murdering of unarmed wounded prisoners.
We should expect them to follow the rules of engagement, the internationally agreed-upon rules of war that govern how prisoners are treated.
Killing someone who has surrendered is a crime. Combatants are also barred from killing or attacking the sick or wounded.
You're right of course. Thing is, it is true that these things always happen in wars. I just read a book that is a collection of experiences from Ranger and Airborne troops from the 39-45 war. There are many accounts of Americans killing unarmed German prisoners. We hear only about the massacre of Americans at Malmady but the reality of it is that we all do it, only you don't hear about it so much from the winners who write the history.
I don't doubt that John Kerry was absolutely truthful about the atrocities in Vietnam. The Viet Cong did the same thing.
The thing about shooting the injured insurgent was on the news last night. The problem was that the insurgents were booby trapping the bodies of the injured, this soldier had just been wounded by the same thing and he was probably jumpy. The guy's life was on the line if it turned out to be another booby trap.
Not to cheapen this incident, but it reminded me of the Revolutionary War. When the British were marching to Lexington they kept getting attacked en route by local militias. We still have some of the British soldiers accounts of the journey where they say basically say "goodness me how rude." Later on in the war lots of British commanders complained that the colonists did not form recognizable attack patterns like they did, and this was supremely unfair. Lots of stuff about "they hide behind trees and then shoot at us - the rudeness!"
Assuming that you agree with the legitimacy of the war...
What's wrong with shooting dead someone you believe to be a threat? A soldier always has the right of self-defence. Given their propensity to suicide bombing, it's not a huge stretch of the imagination to believe that the Iraqi victim was a threat - concealed weapons, booby traps etc.
This is my take on it First I was shocked that the marine should have done that, but then I thought.
Some of those marines have only been there a few days. It's most likely their first experience of real close-combat. Their average age is about 21. They are probably terrified. Some are going to react first and ask questions later.
It was also a different group of marines, not the first group come back.
The marine in question was removed from duty.
None of this would have been known if NBC had not been there.
This is the truth of war.
What comes around goes around sadly.
Is it just me or does anyone else see Iraq looking like a bigger, better equipped Northern Ireland during its violent peak?
Frankly, I don't believe the Americans have what it takes to deal with that long-term, in the way the British did.
Sadly, I can forsee plenty of Iraqi part-time soldiers being shot in front of their families whilst off duty - same goes for police and of course the luring/ambushing of American soldiers who will remain the "prize" kill. In the meantime, the car bombs, the assasinations and the resentment will probably continue.
What comes around goes around sadly.
Is it just me or does anyone else see Iraq looking like a bigger, better equipped Northern Ireland during its violent peak?
Agreed. What's worse is it may spread to ajoining countries. This will go on much longer than Vietnam. It's the attitude of the inevitabilities of war that gets me.
War should be a last resort and the old men who choose it should be made to go fight it.
Assuming that you agree with the legitimacy of the war...
What's wrong with shooting dead someone you believe to be a threat? A soldier always has the right of self-defence. Given their propensity to suicide bombing, it's not a huge stretch of the imagination to believe that the Iraqi victim was a threat - concealed weapons, booby traps etc.
Actually they don't.
Once a combatant has been removed from the combat, by injury or surrender - the right to kill them largely evaporates.
The issue here is whether the Marine involved realized that his victime had surrendered - the tape indicates that he thought they were all dead and then thought that this one was 'faking'. Thus the possibility is that he thought that there was a potential threat. This is the thin end of a legitimate kill and we should not confuse mitigating factors (like combat stress) with justification.
What I want to know is why these five wounded combatants were left for 24 hours to die. They were entitled to treatment and evacuation - if the original Marines had complied with the law the subsequent unit would never have been in this position.
I recognize the concern about 'armchair warriors' (particularly ones like me who have never done military service) but I get a strong sense that the Americans do not regard these insurgents as legitmate soldiers and thus not entitled to the protections of the Geneva Convention. The new Attorney General has said as much - he and the Administration are wrong and their poor judgement has created the current atmosphere whereby individual soldiers and Marines seem to be losing respect for the rules of war.
As Pilgrim said - what goes around comes around.
Here is an interesting excerpt from a soldier in WW1.
As the ferocious battle wound down and enemy troops surrendered or retreated a wounded German soldier limped out of the maelstrom and into Private Tandey's line of fire, the battle weary man never raised his rifle and just stared at Tandey resigned to the inevitable. "I took aim but couldn't shoot a wounded man," said Tandey, "so I let him go."
That German soldier was Adolph Hitler.
http//www.firstworldwar.com/features/tandey.htm
Here is an interesting excerpt from a soldier in WW1.As the ferocious battle wound down and enemy troops surrendered or retreated a wounded German soldier limped out of the maelstrom and into Private Tandey's line of fire, the battle weary man never raised his rifle and just stared at Tandey resigned to the inevitable. "I took aim but couldn't shoot a wounded man," said Tandey, "so I let him go." That German soldier was Adolph Hitler.
That's an amazing story, first time I've heard it, it makes one stop and think before one opens one's big mouth.
I have to agree with ameriscot, these men have been in grueling hand to hand combat for the past (what) nine days ? in service to their country, and making this world a safer place for everybody, I salute them, and pray for their safe return, their safety is more important to me, than some wounded iraqi who was shooting at our men minutes before, this soldier did the RIGHT thing, God Bless him and keep him safe
their safety is more important to me, than some wounded iraqi who was shooting at our men minutes before, this soldier did the RIGHT thing, God Bless him and keep him safe
Great idea, but he wasn't armed, he wasn't shooting at them, he'd been left there for 24 hours, wounded, to die.
And if America doesn't follow the geneva convention regarding these people, why should they follow it regarding ours.??
Life's a two way street, something America seems to forget
:(